Message-ID: <20050208000142.42561.qmail@web41904.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:01:42 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <200502071811.02209.phma@phma.hn.org>
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From: Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>
Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar
Subject: [lojban] Re: {fu'ivla} has too few places
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--- Pierre Abbat wrote:
> {fu'ivla} as defined in noralujv has four places:
> 1. the word of foreign origin
> 2. the meaning
> 3. the language
> 4. the word in the foreign language.
> It is unclear whether x3 is the language the fu'ivla is in or the language it
> came from,

I think it has to be the the language the fu'ivla is in, that's
what the valsi place structure provides. If the word was {vlafu'i}
then it could be the language of the copied word, but {fu'ivla}
seems to require the language of the copy.

> and in which language x2 is the meaning (which can be quite 
> different; 

Again, for the same reason, it has to be the meaning in the language
of the valsi.

> e.g. "Handy" in German means "cellphone"). I think the word needs 
> two more places.

And what happened to the "by method" place of {fukpi}, which
would give the "type-3", "type-4" of Lojban fu'iva? Perhaps
the place structure could be:

x1 valsi x2 x3 gi'e fukpi x4 noi valsi x5 x6 ku'o x7
"x1 is a word with meaning x2 in language x3 copied from 
word x4, meaning x5 in language x6, by method/of type x7."

mu'o mi'e xorxes
  

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