From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Mar 12 11:46:29 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DACZ3-000830-1j for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:46:21 -0800 Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DACYy-000820-Fn for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:46:20 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2005 19:45:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2005 19:45:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jorne@eubot.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91953 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2005 19:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2005 19:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakermmtao10.cox.net) (68.230.240.29) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2005 19:45:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [70.179.101.17]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050312194536.YHWJ29924.lakermmtao10.cox.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:45:36 -0500 Message-ID: <423346E5.3050107@eubot.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com References: <20050312175427.15089.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050312175427.15089.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 68.230.240.29 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Brian Eubanks X-Yahoo-Profile: eubanksb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:45:41 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Semantic Primes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9569 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jorne@eubot.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi rodo I think what Brandon is trying to do, and me too, with the Jorne Project (http://jorne.org -- which I hope he will join), is to be able to convert Semantic Web constructs to and from Lojban. I agree that the Lojban gismu are not exactly semantic primes. Some ontologies for semantic primes can be found in: English Wordnet at http://wordnet.princeton.edu/ SUMO/MILO at http://suo.ieee.org/ OpenCyc at http://opencyc.org/ and others But because gismu can be combined logically (and the language is syntactically non-ambiguous) it is an appropriate prose language for creating and describing semantic content. We would need to build standard semantic hierarchies in order to do that. For example they can be Lojban<->Lojban, Lojban<->Wordnet or Lojban<->SUMO. I think it would be very powerful to have the gismu formally related to concepts from each of the above (in a hierarchy/ontology such as OWL). This forms a natural dictionary (think "semantic gloss") that is accessible to machine reasoning and can also form the basis for automated discovery of Lojban glosses in other languages. I started looking at some of the gismu and trying to map them to SUMO concepts but have not had much time to spend on it lately. English has a Wordnet database, why shouldn't Lojban? ;-) And we can do it even better because of the logical aspects of Lojban. Imagine the following scenario: ------- Last year, in 2015, the Semantic Web arrived in a big way. Half of the world's web sites have converted their pages into webs of concepts instead of text documents linked by "keywords" (which are what HTML hyperlinks are). Software conversion agents are becoming autonomous, and can now automatically discover and reason about knowledge gathered from sites on the web. This can happen because the semantics of the content is encoded in RDF tags. But a lot of the ancient 2005-era legacy data in natural language format still needs to be properly converted. It's a massive undertaking. Lojban is playing an important part in this. By 2012, all the major natural languages had a wordnet and grammarnet. But Lojban had the most machine-compatible of any of these, because it didn't rely on a neural network or fuzzy logic to process the grammar. So the World Semantic Council voted to make Lojban as the official intermediate prose description language for semantic webs. Once any natural language document is converted into a semantic (RDF) description, software agents need to check the correctness of the mapping. These quality testing agents convert the RDF structures into Lojban. Lojban here is working like a hybrid of natural language and data structure. The agents compare the Lojban against the original text and its English, Chinese, and Hindi translations from RDF. Currently, a human also checks the generated text for semantic correctness (according to the StandardHuman2011 semantic standard). This is taking too much time and money. There are rumors that the human QA checks will be reduced by 50% next year. Note: This document is a translation to English from Quechua and German versions (via RDF and Lojban) and its semantic consistency has not yet been verified. ------- This stuff will become real, and it's already happening in some ways. Witness the amazing growth of RSS site feeds lately. And XML is used everywhere. Take a look at the W3C's vision for the semantic web and its clear that Lojban would fit into the picture very well. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ la iuban blog at http://brian.mxdj.com John E Clifford wrote: >This sounds like an interesting project and I am >glad you think that Lojban may help. But you >should note early on that Lojban gismu are not >meant to be semantic primes but rather higher >nodes in a web that will be more useful for >forming compounds (primes make for very long >compounds -- check out AUI). Notice, by way of >making the point, the current discussion about >{pilka} and {skapi}, which probably share some >primes and yet are clearly different and are both >gismu. Taking gismu as fixed points, your web >will have to go down as well as up to fit other >concepts in, if that is the overall scheme you >are following (I don't keep up, so my ideas are >very 1970's -- roughly old stone age, I suspect). > >- > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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