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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: Re[2]: tanru
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pc:
> But, of course, {mutce} doesn't have two opposite
> senses. 

Okey, just a very exotic sense.

> Or, of course, comes from "very" (and the like in
> other languages) which can extend in any
> direction towards an extreme.

But "very" is always unidirectional. "Very hot" can only mean hotter
than normal. {mutce lo ka glare} can in theory mean "very hot" or
"barely hot". In practice, only "very hot".

> As noted, I have some trouble thinking of eating
> as a property and most especially as a proprty
> that of itself can be comparative or superlative,
> etc.: "He very eats" -- even "He extremely eats"
> -- doesn't compute out to anything in any literal
> way and as an idion makes most sense as being
> about amounts of eating (in one reading or
> another).

Those would be the most likely ones, yes:

  mutce lo ka ce'u citka lo klani be li xo kau
  Extreme in how much they eat.

  mutce lo ka ce'u xo kau roi citka
  Extreme in how often they eat.

{mutce lo ka [ce'u] citka} is not explicit about what exactly is being graded.

> > If you put {le nu citka} in x2, how do you know
> > what role the x1
> > of mutce/dukse plays in that event?
> 
> Presumably as subject, just as it would with {ka}
> -- or {ni} for that matter.

But you can't use {ce'u} with {nu}.

> And we have said nothing about the kinds of
> extreme -- in eating say -- that *don't* deal
> with quantities: eating chocolate-covered
> grasshoppers, for example, or raw mokey brains
> scooped out of the skull which is sliced off at
> the table.  those would seem to call for
> 9indirect questions in the second what "is
> extreme in what he eats" or even, "in that he
> eats ..." (both of which look to be moving toward
> events or at least propositions. 

  mutce lo ka ce'u citka lo mo kau
  Extreme in what kind of thing they eat.

> Maybe when BPFK
> gerts around to vocabulary word like this need a
> second look.

Removing the "in direction" place would certainly bring it more in line 
with usage.

mu'o mi'e xorxes