From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Tue Mar 15 09:48:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43684 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2005 17:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2005 17:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2005 17:48:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DBG9o-0007TJ-Cu for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:48:40 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DBG91-0007SI-Ic; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:48:04 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DBG8p-0007S9-W7 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:47:40 -0800 Received: from web41906.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DBG8e-0007Rk-CD for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:47:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 60600 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2005 17:46:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20050315174656.60598.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.49.74.2] by web41906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:46:56 PST Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:46:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9586 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Jorge "Llambías" Reply-To: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Subject: [lojban] Re: [Archivist] muvdu vs. sezmuvgau X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142311107 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23949 --- Bob LeChevalier wrote: > Originally, muvdu was an agentive move, but it was always misused. > People wanted to use it for oscillatory motion, for moving your arm > (which is ambiguous as to whether it is agentive) We still don't have a good general word for motion. {muvdu} is for translatory motion, but it does not cover {carna} or {desku} for example, which are other kinds of motion. A word that covers them all could be {tolcando}, but it has other connotations. > The gismu list gives muvgau and muvzu'e for agentive move. {muvgau} is agentive but the agent (x1) is not the one changing location, the x2 is the one that changes location in this case. {muvzu'e} is agentive and volitional. x1 is the one that changes location by its own agency, and also with some goal. {sezmuvgau} is like {muvzu'e} but not necessarily volitional. {muvdu} is not necessarily agentive nor volitional, but it can of course be used to describe the motion of a person. It is not specified whether they move by their own agency and/or volition, but for people it would probably be the default assumption. mu'o mi'e xorxes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/