From ben@goertzel.org Tue Mar 22 04:57:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ben@goertzel.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14184 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 12:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2005 12:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intelligenesiscorp.com) (208.234.8.229) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 12:57:52 -0000 Received: from PICKLEWOMAN (vetta.vettatech.com [200.196.45.33]) by intelligenesiscorp.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j2MCukn7006536; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: <00be01c52eef$5c772220$7800020a@PICKLEWOMAN> To: , "opi_lauma" References: Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:56:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C52EC5.72A81420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 208.234.8.229 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Ben Goertzel" Subject: Re: [lojban] "zo'e" = ("unimportant","obvious" and ?"unknown") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1278257 X-Yahoo-Profile: bgoertzel X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23994 ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C52EC5.72A81420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Opi, I'm a newbie also but I'll try to answer your question, just to test my own= understanding ;-) A Lojban statement is semantically isomorphic to a mathematical predicate f( x_1, ..., x_n) where f is a selbri and the x_i are sumti In this formalism using zo'e is basically equivalent to using a wild-card s= ymbol for one of the x_i For instance, the textbook example mi vecnu zo'e zo'e le rupnu ("I sell something to someone for the dollar") is semantically isomorphic to vecnu( mi, *, *, le rupnu) All zo'e does is to specify that these arguments are not specified. The zo= 'e's are place-holders.=20=20 The choice to use explicit zo'e's instead of rewording using other mechanis= ms is a matter of pragmatics, and emphasis. To me, the above sentence read= s emotionally something like I sell SOMETHING to SOMEONE for a dollar because the choice to include the zo'e's adds a certain emphasis to those u= nfilled arguments, an emphasis that is not present e.g. in the semantically= isomorphic (and generally superior, I suppose) rephrasing mi vecnu fo le rupnu -- Ben G ----- Original Message -----=20 From: opi_lauma=20 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: [lojban] "zo'e" =3D ("unimportant","obvious" and ?"unknown") Hello, I am new in this group. My name is Opi Lauma. Pleas help me to find answer on my first question. I found that zo'e is unspecified value (used when a sumti is unimportant or obvious). However "unimportant" and "obvious" are different category. Is there a possibility to emphasize whether sumti is "unimportant" or "obvious"? What I need to do if sumti is "unknown", i.e. it is important and not obvious, but "unknown". Can I use "zo'e" in this case? If not, what I need to use? Thank you. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ =20=20=20=20=20=20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20=20=20=20=20=20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service= .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C52EC5.72A81420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Opi,
 
I'm a newbie also but I'll try to answer y= our=20 question, just to test my own understanding ;-)
 
A Lojban statement is semantically isomorp= hic to a=20 mathematical predicate
 
f( x_1, ..., x_n)
 
where f is a selbri and the x_i are=20 sumti
 
In this formalism using zo'e is basically= =20 equivalent to using a wild-card symbol for one of the x_i
 
For instance, the textbook example<= /DIV>
 
mi vecnu zo'e zo'e le rupnu
 
("I sell something to someone for the=20 dollar")
 
is semantically isomorphic to
 
vecnu( mi, *, *, le rupnu)
 
All zo'e does is to specify that these arg= uments=20 are not specified.  The zo'e's are place-holders. 
 
The choice to use explicit zo'e's instead = of=20 rewording using other mechanisms is a matter of pragmatics, and=20 emphasis.  To me, the above sentence reads emotionally something=20 like
 
I sell SOMETHING to SOMEONE for a=20 dollar
 
because the choice to include the zo'e's a= dds a=20 certain emphasis to those unfilled arguments, an emphasis that is not prese= nt=20 e.g. in the semantically isomorphic (and generally superior, I suppose= )=20 rephrasing
 
mi vecnu fo le rupnu
 
-- Ben G
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 opi_la= uma=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:00= =20 AM
Subject: [lojban] "zo'e" =3D=20 ("unimportant","obvious" and ?"unknown")


Hello,

I am new in this group. My name is O= pi=20 Lauma. Pleas help me to find
answer on my first question. I found that= zo'e=20 is unspecified value
(used when a sumti is unimportant or obvious). Ho= wever=20 "unimportant"
and "obvious" are different category. Is there a possibi= lity=20 to
emphasize whether sumti is "unimportant" or "obvious"? What I need= =20 to
do if sumti is "unknown", i.e. it is important and not obvious,=20 but
"unknown". Can I use "zo'e" in this case? If not, what I need to=20 use?

Thank you.





To unsubscribe, se= nd=20 mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com


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