From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Mar 14 20:06:39 2005
Return-Path: <lojbab@lojban.org>
X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org
X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Received: (qmail 51327 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2005 04:06:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166)
  by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2005 04:06:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO lakermmtao04.cox.net) (68.230.240.35)
  by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2005 04:06:37 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [24.250.99.39]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net
          (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP
          id <20050315040634.JVWF11124.lakermmtao04.cox.net@[127.0.0.1]>;
          Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:06:34 -0500
Message-ID: <42365F51.6070804@lojban.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:06:41 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com
References: <20050315013714.GG14473@chain.digitalkingdom.org>
In-Reply-To: <20050315013714.GG14473@chain.digitalkingdom.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Originating-IP: 68.230.240.35
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0
From: Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>
Subject: Re: [lojban] [Archivist] muvdu vs. sezmuvgau
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595
X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 23948

Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> I get the impression from the definition of muvdu (in particular,
> the claim that its x1 is an object) that it can't be used for "I
> move to the back of the room".

I'm not sure why not.  Lojban definitions aren't always politically 
correct, and a person can be an object %^)

> Arguably, that's klama anyways,

Originally, muvdu was an agentive move, but it was always misused. 
People wanted to use it for oscillatory motion, for moving your arm 
(which is ambiguous as to whether it is agentive)

To accommodate usage, muvdu and klama ended up being more or less the 
same except that muvdu has no mode of transport.  We ended up finding 
ways to use muvdu to say whatever needed to be said, or use benji, 
klama, or some straightforward compound.

 > but I just want to check: can muvdu
> be used for agentive movement?

The gismu list gives muvgau and muvzu'e for agentive move.

lojbab