From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Mar 26 08:05:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77316 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2005 16:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2005 16:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2005 16:05:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DFDmk-0000CM-Gy for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:05:14 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DFDm8-0000BR-Fn; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:04:38 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DFDln-0000BC-LR for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:04:15 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.205]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DFDlj-0000Ae-KV for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:04:15 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 57so388599wri for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:03:39 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=hMxKQ9znlRkOIeJds/5JuNOnnocp83IgsLHX279+QJXZpY5eEdYxCWnUMv1sZaznTk/OrIaV/hRKAacf5Y2Y0jndwSLrSm4EFM/wUoBMvzMo+amBunubyC1pYRC2wV/w13GOJYYQHSi4EVit2saoGC3aPZrNo6wH7oAZpfTt8wY= Received: by 10.54.102.14 with SMTP id z14mr1861186wrb; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.69.3 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:03:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d1756050326080320e5d54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:03:39 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20050326153945.65029.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <20050326153945.65029.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9657 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Re[2]: tanru X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24016 pc: > First, {mutce} is "x1 is > extreme in property x2 in direction x3" so it is > unclear whether the elephant is extrme in eating > too much or in eating too little. Very much or very little, because {mutce} doesn't indicate excess, that would be {dukse}. I have never seen {mutce} used in the sense of "very little" though, and if someone uses it with that sense it's very likely they will be misunderstood. I don't know why the two senses were conflated in the same word. I always use {toltce/tolmutce} for "very little". What's the point of having one word (and an extremely frequent one too) with two such opposite senses? > Second, I am not clear just what > the *property* of eating is or how it can be > extreme. One expects to see an event description > here in most cases. If you use an event in the x2 of mutce, what do you put in the x1? All the degree words (mutce, milxe, dukse, traji) and the comparison words (dunli, frica, zmadu, mleca) require a property. > Still, I would feel safer with {poi dukse le nu > citka}, "who eats too much." I would use {lo ka [ce'u] citka}, either with {mutce} or {dukse}. If you put {le nu citka} in x2, how do you know what role the x1 of mutce/dukse plays in that event? mu'o mi'e xorxes