From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Mar 26 13:10:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96951 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2005 21:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2005 21:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2005 21:10:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DFIXS-0005Zn-UT for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:09:46 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DFIXK-0005ZW-N0; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:09:40 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DFIXA-0005ZI-AD for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:09:28 -0800 Received: from web81301.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.76]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DFIX7-0005Yo-O9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:09:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20050326210854.99985.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.48.37] by web81301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:08:54 PST Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:08:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 9671 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: New to Lojban and a question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24030 In most political discourse (as opposed to at least some political science), "conservative" and "liberal" have become mainly words of praise or condemnation (often both by the different sides in a debate). They probably, in that sense, have exactly the same Lojban form "bad polital position" and "good political position" (assuming that "bad" and "good" are entirely subjective: maybe "liked" and "despised" would be better). At least some political scientists -- when not act8ively members of some group -- try for objective definitions in terms of goals, priorities, appropriate actions, and the like in a variety of areas and then come up with words (occasionally -- and often disastrously -- the traditional labels). I would suggest that, when Lojban needs to get political labels, it creates ones that are at least intended to be descriptive of an approach to governing. Then, as just noted, we canmfight about which -- if any (and probably not) -- means "liberal" and which "conservative." The performance of modern liberal and conservatives, traditionally so called -- indeed of more specifically named parties, like Labor or Democrat or Christian Socialists -- in the light of traditonal (late 19th through mid-20th century) positions for those names, suggests that the old words are quite nearly useless -- them what has 'em don't do 'em as well as the old concommitants no longer running together. --- Theodore Reed wrote: > On Sat, 2005-03-26 at 11:44 -0800, Ryan Gray > wrote: > > Hi! I am new to Lojban and find it a > fascinating > > concept. This is my first time posting to > this group. > > I have also have a question. What are the > Lojban > > translation for various political terms. The > reason I > > ask is that "conservative" in Russia means a > very > > different thing from "conservative" in the > United > > States. Likewise, Thomas Jefferson was > considered a > > "liberal" in his day even though his views > would be > > VERY different those of from someone like > Teddy > > Kennedy. Today, many would say Thomas > Jefferson would > > be closer to being libertarian than either > > conservative or liberal. I would think that a > logical > > language such as Lojban would have more > precise words > > for these ideas. > > Actually, even in the US, there's disagreement > over what the word > conservative means. I describe myself as very > politically conservative, > and folks are surprised when I'm an > anti-christian heathen. > > When I say conservative, I mean something like: > cmalu turni sarji > When other folks here say it, they tend to > mean: slabu tadji sarji > > To answer your question, I'm not sure the words > exist yet, but it > wouldn't be hard to make them. (Although we'll > all be fighting over the > glosses.) > > mu'omi'e.bancus > >