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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:53:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [lojban] Re: {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?
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--- Opi Lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >Opi Lauma,
> >you are expecting everything to be verbs, but
> lojban 
> >works on relationships. A
> >verb is an action, but a relationship between
> two 
> >things could be a property,
> >not an action. The relationship between Tom
> and Mary 
> >is "talking" and that
> >relationship is described as "beautiful."
> 
> I would agree that "talking" is that, what is
> "beautiful". No matter whether we consider {la
> tam.
> melbi tavla la meris.} or {la meris. melbi se
> tavla la
> tam.}. I like such interpretation, because
> there I can
> see a system. However, in reference crammer {la
> meris.
> melbi se tavla la tam.} has been translated as
> {Mary
> is a beautiful-audience for Tom.}. 

And in that sense is not the same as the
unconverted form, for now it is Mary who might be
beautiful (this was possible before but now
becomes a fairly common form) or it is her
performance -- whatever it is -- as a hearer that
might be beautiful and so on.  The possibilities
are not changed much, but the probabilities get reordered.