From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Apr 29 06:42:07 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DRVkl-0001mc-SD for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:41:59 -0700 Received: from web81304.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.79]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DRVkf-0001mJ-V3 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:41:59 -0700 Message-ID: <20050429134122.40609.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.48.37] by web81304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:41:22 PDT Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:41:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: Penguicon Lojban Presentation To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 9902 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list My turn to be puzzled. What was my joke that you understand? The one I thought I was making was just translating the English expression "Cool!" as the Lojban expression {cmalenku}, which, of course, does not mean "cool" in that sense at all. This is a common form of Lojban mistake, malglico, here used deliberately (as I hoped everyone would recognize) for effect. But {cmalenku} is not --in practice, though not officially -- a proper lujvo for "cool" even in the meaning of "slightly cold" since it is not (in practice though it is officially) a literal, analytic definition of the meaning (that this is the way lujvo go is actually against the spirit of the official line but is the way practice has almost uniformly gone). When Robin said "literal" my mind flashed to the recent discussions about the situation in lujvo construction. It did not occur to me that he had figured out the lujvo meaning (he is not great at this even when they are analytic -- nor am I for that matter) and was merely puzzled by how the literal meaning of "slightly cold" applied to your description -- despite the fact that he had just said that the situation was cool -- in the colloquial sense -- himself. So I responded to the comment I read, not to the one he wrote. some where in the archives is a translation -- with several emendations, of course -- of the classic "I know that you believe that understand what you think I said, but I am not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant," a possible motto for Lojban work generally. --- Matt Arnold wrote: > I understand the humor, but I also understand > how Robin would be confused wondering what was > cold about my presentation. {cma} had nothing > to do with your joke. Or are you still joking? > -Matt > > clifford-j@sbcglobal.net wrote: > >--- Robin Lee Powell > > wrote: > >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 01:08:51PM -0700, > John > >> E Clifford wrote: > >> > > >> > --- Jorge Llamb?as > >> wrote: > >> > > On 4/28/05, Robin Lee Powell > >> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 06:59:11AM > -0700, > >> > > John E Clifford wrote: > >> > > > > cmalenku > >> > > > > >> > > > ki'a sai .o'o cu'i > >> > > > >> > > pe'i smudji zo zabna i cumki ji'a fa lo > nu > >> lo tu vensa za'o na > >> > > banzu glari'a > >> > > > >> > Well, yes, it was meant to be favorable > and, > >> yes, Spring here has > >> > goone from 8os back to 40s (Fahrenheit, > >> obviously). But all I did > >> > was observe -- like Robin -- that the > events > >> described were cool > >> > (calque and thus not really approved, but > it > >> was a short joke). > >> > >> Wow. I'm so used to the literalism of > Lojban > >> that, as usual, the > >> joke never occured to me. > >> > >Gee, I can't even claim this as a fancy > >metaphorical lujvo; {cma} has been used > >consistently as a diminutive and/or lessening > >prefix since the get-go. > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. > http://www.e-mol.com > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness > or disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health > awareness efforts! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to > lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email to: > lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > >