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Message-ID: <20050411104133.80621.qmail@web31303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
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From: Opi Lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 03:41:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [lojban] Re: {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?
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As I understood from previous postings, {X1 talks to
X2} and {X2 is talked by X1} mean the same. {X1 tavla
X2} and {X2 se tavla X1} have also the same meaning.
My question is whether {X1 melbi tavla X2} and {X2
melbi se tavla X1} have also the same meaning. It
seams to me that according to Reference Grammar
(http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter2.html)
the last two sentences have different meaning. Really,
the first one is translated as {Tom beautifully-talks
to Mary.} and the second one is translated as {Mary is
a beautiful-audience for Tom.}. In the last sentence
"beautiful" is related with action of Mary, it means
that Mary is talked by Tom and she does it
beautifully. However, as I understood from previous
postings, "to be talked" means "to do nothing" (even
stone can be talked), so I cannot understand how one
can do nothing beautifully?


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