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To: Opi Lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com>
Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com
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Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0504111408280.2470@neuron.noos.fr>
References: <20050411104133.80621.qmail@web31303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: Yann Le Du <yann.ledu@noos.fr>
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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:17:12 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [lojban] Re: {X1 selbri X2} = {X2 se selbri X1}?
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Opi Lauma wrote:

> As I understood from previous postings, {X1 talks to
> X2} and {X2 is talked by X1} mean the same. {X1 tavla
> X2} and {X2 se tavla X1} have also the same meaning.
> My question is whether {X1 melbi tavla X2} and {X2
> melbi se tavla X1} have also the same meaning. It
> seams to me that according to Reference Grammar
> (http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter2.html)
> the last two sentences have different meaning. Really,
> the first one is translated as {Tom beautifully-talks
> to Mary.} and the second one is translated as {Mary is
> a beautiful-audience for Tom.}. In the last sentence
> "beautiful" is related with action of Mary, it means
> that Mary is talked by Tom and she does it
> beautifully. However, as I understood from previous
> postings, "to be talked" means "to do nothing" (even
> stone can be talked), so I cannot understand how one
> can do nothing beautifully?

Well, from the point of view of Tom, Mary may look beautiful for some 
purpose, without Mary doing anything. Someone may seem perfect for 
something without doing anything in particular.

--
mi'e .ian.xek.


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