From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Apr 23 08:58:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31416 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2005 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2005 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2005 15:58:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DPN1A-0003J6-SR for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:58:04 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DPN0Y-0003IV-26; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:57:27 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DPN0M-0003IM-5b for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:57:14 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.201]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DPN0L-0003Ha-2e for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:57:14 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so1160167wri for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.10.56 with SMTP id 56mr1051725wrj; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560504230856449ebb79@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:56:41 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20050423133440.4834.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050423133440.4834.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9866 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Something Wittgenstein wrote ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24235 On 4/23/05, John E Clifford wrote: > --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > > Or even {lo nu morsi cu temcau tcini}. > > > Well, {tcini} is less likely than {fasnu} to > imply time, so this is at least not inherently a > contradiction. But, of course, x's being dead is > timeless only from x's point of view; to the > living x's being dead continues on from x's > death. On the other hand, "timeless" often just > means "doesn't end" and that is true of one's > being dead -- so long as time doesn't end anyhow. Or so long as one doesn't resurrect or reincarnate, I suppose. We have {vitno} for the neverending sense: lo nu morsi cu vitno "Death is permanent." But are we trying to express an icontrovertible truth about death, or are we trying to translate an objectionable form of expression? mu'o mi'e xorxes