From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Apr 25 13:41:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64108 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2005 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2005 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DQAOr-00029n-PN for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:41:49 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DQAOB-000294-5J; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:41:11 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DQANz-00028m-93 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:40:55 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.201]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DQANv-00028J-5w for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:40:55 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so1681452wri for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.40.63 with SMTP id n63mr2165133wrn; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d175605042513403a144891@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:40:19 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20050425104936.9763.qmail@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050425104936.9763.qmail@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9872 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: se selbri1 selbri2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24241 On 4/25/05, Opi Lauma wrote: > I would like again to ask about {nanla ckule} and > {ckule co nanla}. According to the list of gismu {x1 > is a boy/lad [young male person] of age x2 immature by > standard x3}. Since {nanla ckule} is {boy's school} > one can conclude that construction {selbri1 selbri2} > (as well as {selbri2 co selbri1}) extracts the first > argument of {selbri1}. The x1 argument is just the most salient of the relationship, but the modifier is the whole relationship, not just the x1. {broda brode} has the place structure of {brode}, and the meaning of brode is modified by the broda relationship in an unspecified way. For example, {mi plipe nelci}, "I jump enjoy" can mean that I like to jump or that I like someone that jumps, or maybe it means something else. You can make it clear which one you mean: {mi nelci lo nu plipe}, {mi nelci lo plipe}, but if you use the tanru, you have to rely on context. > Another arguments of {selbri1} > (such as "age" and "immaturity standard") do not take > a part in the meaning of {selbri1 selbri2}. They do. When you use a brivla, all places are always present. > Can one > somehow extract these arguments of {selbri1} to modify > with there usage selbri2. For example {se selbri1 > selbri2} (se nanla ckule). That indeed makes the x2 more salient, but the other places are still present. >Does this construction mean > {school of age}, The x2 is not any age, it is a boy's age, so maybe "school of boy's age", whatever that means. > or {te nanla ckule} means {school of > immaturity standard}? A boy's immaturity standard type of school. mu'o mi'e xorxes