From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Apr 02 06:18:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33416 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2005 14:18:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2005 14:18:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 14:18:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DHjRz-000541-44 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:18:11 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DHjRi-00053H-BQ; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:17:56 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DHjRS-000537-CE for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:17:38 -0800 Received: from web81302.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.77]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DHjRO-00052h-18 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:17:38 -0800 Message-ID: <20050402141702.26225.qmail@web81302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.48.37] by web81302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 06:17:02 PST Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 06:17:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 9749 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: (.azbuk.(I am book))Sense of Archaic Russian alphabet X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24105 --- ignat 99 wrote: > > coi rodo > > This is the exemplary(not precise) sense of > archaic Russian alphabet. > Negative part goes after semicolon. In the > curly braces the words, > that I could not transfer. You will supplement > and correct me, please. > To select necessary on one word of each line > :-)) I am not quite sure what is going on here. Is it that the archaic alphabet had, like futhark, names which had other meanings and so could be used for fortunetelling or rapid communication or... . If so, than Lojba does not have that feature; but I am not sure that it is something that we feel the lack of. > Example: fa mi fe lerfu cu djuno {fa} and {fe} are unnecessary; the word order does the same work. {fe lerfu} is ungrammatical: {fe} requires a following sumti (noun phrase) and {lerfu lone is a brivla (verb). It needs an article or a quantifier in front of it to become a sumti. As I understand the sentence, {lo} is probably what is meant -- the unspecified letters as a sort of thing. I am not sure exactly what {djuno le lerfu} means, but {djuno} is the word for knowing a fact and letters are not facts (even if their names have other meanings), so I think that you want {se slabu} here, "is familiar with" (compare German "wissen" and "kennen," Spanish "saber" and "conocer", French "savoir" and "connotre" -- I don't know whether Russian has a similar distinction, but it is that one takes a proposition as object, the other a person, place or thing). > http://www.lojban.org/en/publications/reference_grammar/chapter17.html#s17 > .azys. mi > .bukys. lerfu, cukta, xatra ?From IE for beech -- bark and all that can be written on it. Should {papri}, "paper", be on this list, too? > .vedis. sivni, viska, djuno, kakne, > sanji, jijnu ?IE for "see" hence "know" an related areas of coming to know. > .i > .glagolis. selbri, ciska > .dobros. ricfu, pluka > .iestys. gleki, zasti These don't fit toether so well and I don't see the source (internal to Slavic?) > ( .ios. by ) (It is the modern Russian letter. > Would be a smiley-face > for respect) > > (The knowledge about the Archaic Alphabet in > contemporary person > usually concludes at this place. And the begins > mat(slang) and/of > Rap and Hip-Hop . :-))))) ) Really? Both of these are surprising -- that modern folk know so much arcana and that this usage persists in the most up-to-date areas. > .i > .jivet. jmive > .selo. jilra > .zemlias. terdi, xabju, jdari, kliti > .itord. .i .e These make sense even from the little Russian I know. > .ije,is. ko'a-ko'u, fo'a-fo'u, ta, ri > .kakos. simsa > .liudi,ies. natmi, prenu, krinu > .myslites. pensi > .i > .naciys. kampu > .onys. munje > .pokois. jicmu, stodi > .koppa. > .i > .riytsi. tavla, voksa But these are beyond me. > .slovos. gismu, gadri, cmavo, cmene, > valsi Though this makes a sort of sense: words and their classes. > .tvriydos. sligu, birti > .i > .ukys. saske, ctuca > .friytys. tarbi, rorci > .xerys. cevni ; kunti > .i > .tsis. darsi, pagre, dasni ; {scum, > dregs} > .tcriyviys. curnu; betfu crida, danlu > .cas. vi ma; le na vamji ninmu ku > .ctas. ; {thief} > .ier. ; le vanju pinxe remna ku > .ierys. ; le lijda bradi ku > .ieriys. ; le nandu dimna ku > .ecarn. zasti; {out cust} > .ius. gusni, blabi ; kavbu > .ias. jimpe, jitro ; lasna > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Yus) ; pinfu > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Yus_iotified) > ; catra > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksi) ; le leave > ku {die} > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_%28Cyrillic%29) > ; gerku > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fita) ; {stink} > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izhitsa) ; pulce > Fascinating!