From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Apr 15 12:46:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5487 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2005 19:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2005 19:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2005 19:46:31 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DMWlr-0001oK-3v for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:31 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DMWlc-0001nU-11; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:18 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DMWlQ-0001nD-Fl for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:04 -0700 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DMWlQ-0001n6-7X for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <20050415194604.GH13636@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20050415104358.20376.qmail@web31309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050415184257.GE13636@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d1756050415123866f27f8f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <925d1756050415123866f27f8f@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i X-archive-position: 9839 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban] Re: X1 is X2 by definition. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24196 On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 04:38:03PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: > On 4/15/05, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > Please not that defining gismu in Lojban is Hard, because Lojban > > tends not to have many words for the same concept, so some > > concepts must be taken as given, and those are generally the > > gismu. > > Yes, but also it is hard because talking about definitions and > meanings in Lojban is hard. It is not even clear how to talk about > a meaning, as you hint below. > > > My Way: > > > > zo prami se smuni di'e .i xy pi pa ke mutce cinmo nelci xy pi re > > gi'e djica lo nu di'i kansa xy pi re > > > > Or something like that. You could put the second half in the x2 > > of se smuni, but it'd be a pain. > > {di'e} is a text, so if you wanted a text there you could have > used {lu ... li'u}. But I don't think a text is a meaning. > > Maybe you meant {la'e di'e}. More that, yes. > Then you could have used {lo du'u ...} or {lo nu ...} (I think > {la'e di'e} is ambiguous between those two.) But it is not clear > that the meaning of {prami} could be an event or a fact either. lo ka, then. > I think what we want to say is something like: > > {lo ka ce'u xi pa prami ce'u xi re cu mintu lo ka ce'u xi pa mutce > cinmo nelci ce'u xi re li'o kei lo -definition} "the two-place > relationship 'x1 loves x2' is the same as the two-place > relationship 'x1 intensely feels fondness for x2 etc.' by > definition". Bah. Any Lojban word definition that has to say "by definition" has made an error. zo prami cu valsi lo ka ce'u xi pa mutce cinmo nelci ce'u xi re -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/