From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu May 19 09:13:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24059 invoked from network); 19 May 2005 16:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2005 16:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2005 16:13:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DYnXq-0006q1-6U for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:06:46 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DYnXH-0006pX-O6; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:06:26 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 19 May 2005 09:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DYnX4-0006p8-B8 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05:58 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.205]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DYnWu-0006oq-MH for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05:58 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so809526wri for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.107.4 with SMTP id f4mr1090014wrc; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d1756050519090566353075@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:05:17 -0300 In-Reply-To: <737b61f3050519082354b737d5@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050519111254.74956.qmail@web32115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d175605051907374306205a@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f3050519082354b737d5@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 9980 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: {le} and {lo}. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24352 On 5/19/05, Chris Capel wrote: > Actually, I believe, (and I could be wrong,) that {le} doesn't have to > refer to something you've defined earlier. It could introduce a new > reference to a definition (a particular group or individual) you have > in your head, but haven't said anything about thus far. So to say "a > man walks into a bar" you could use "le nanmu cu klama lo barja", > without having mentioned anything about this man yet. Yes. > > > About {lo}. Is it right that {lo gerku} = {le N > > > gerku}, where N is a number of all {gerku} in the > > > world? > > > > All of those dogs existing alive at the moment of speaking? > > {lo gerku} does not in general have such a precise meaning. > > It just means "dogs", or "a dog" in a generic way. For > > example to say that the dog is man's best friend you would > > use {lo gerku}: {lo gerku cu xagrai pendo lo remna}. > > Now, I believe that what Opi Lauma said would have been more true > before your revised BPFK definition of {lo}, right? But the BPFK has > revised {lo} to be a generic article instead of whatever it was > supposed to be before. So Complete Lojban Language, and Lojban for > Beginners, are both out of date in this respect. (Particularly, I > think the section in LFB on lV, lVi, and lV'i is particularly > confusing and unhelpful, especially now.) Right. mu'o mi'e xorxes