From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jun 15 10:36:11 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28149 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dibo0-0000gW-82 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:36:00 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dibnq-0000gC-ML; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:52 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dibnc-0000fv-BD for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:36 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DibnX-0000fl-MT for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:36 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so1836595wra for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.142.8 with SMTP id p8mr4027283wrd; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d1756050615103522c3355@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:35:30 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20050615160226.1921.qmail@web33409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050615160226.1921.qmail@web33409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 10175 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: No default quantifiers. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=qVaxAlWLGZM4ZsGxfQAUjltXGbwgwVhuT1vW5kmK5yo8wkmMoA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24546 On 6/15/05, Opi Lauma wrote: > Hello. > > In the Lojban-Wiki I have found the following: > > There are no default quantifiers. At all. For example, > the default outer quantifier of "lo" used to be > "su'o", which means "at least one", but that is no > longer the case. "lo cribe" could be one, or a > billion, or none. It couldn't be none, {lo cribe} has to refer to something for a sentence about it to make sense. > I do not understand what for the default quantifier > {su'o} has been removed. Now if I say {lo cribe cu > danlu} I say nothing. Because this expression is > always true. "Bears are animals" is always true, but that doesn't mean it says nothing. It says that bears are animals. {lo cribe cu spati} is always false, because bears are not plants. {lo cribe cu blabi} is sometimes true and sometimes false, because bears are sometimes white and sometimes not. We need more context: are we talking about bears in general (they are not always white), are we talking about a certain region, where they are white? >If only one bear is animal it is true, if > none bear is animal it is also true, if there are > arbitrary number of bears which are animals it is also > true. So, I get no information from {lo cribe cu > danlu}, i. e. this sentence contains no information. It contains about the same information as "the bear is an animal" does in English. mu'o mi'e xorxes