From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jun 15 12:51:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6981 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2005 19:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2005 19:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2005 19:51:18 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Diduv-0003SA-BE for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:51:17 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Didue-0003Jl-VR; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:51:04 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DiduS-0003Jb-PF for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:48 -0700 Received: from web81305.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.80]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DiduP-0003JT-Rn for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 52681 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jun 2005 19:50:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20050615195044.52679.qmail@web81305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.50.91] by web81305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:44 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20050615173021.GD13307@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10180 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: No default quantifiers. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=UUGwWATvLcnU8UB9-GUe_KcwI3Y59hxV8qnr4tp8txsJ5M-Qsw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24551 --- Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:02:26AM -0700, Opi > Lauma wrote: > > Hello. > > > > In the Lojban-Wiki I have found the > following: > > > > There are no default quantifiers. At all. For > example, the default > > outer quantifier of "lo" used to be "su'o", > which means "at least > > one", but that is no longer the case. "lo > cribe" could be one, or > > a billion, or none. > > > > I do not understand what for the default > quantifier {su'o} has > > been removed. > > Because it made it very hard to say a lot of > things that people > thought they were saying, but actually weren't. > It also lead to a > lot of very serious confusion when "na" was > involved. A good example of what was hard to say has, so far as I can tell, never actually been offered, though often claimed for bits that were not at all hard to say with old {lo} (actually, the intermediate {lo} that was the consensus between CLL and xorlo). xorlo has some relatively tricky {na} problems of its own, coming down to the relative scope of explicit {na} and implicit generalization -- to be resolved by context again, alas (it does make it hard to pin someone down if they can always say "But you misread the context" when caught saying something absurd). > > Now if I say {lo cribe cu danlu} I say > nothing. Because this > > expression is always true. > > {lo cribe cu danlu} is an extremely > context-dependant sentence. > This is a good thing most of the time. If you > want logical > precision, use an explicit quantifier.