From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Jun 13 12:40:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68569 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2005 19:40:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2005 19:40:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2005 19:40:25 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dhun8-0005MB-3W for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:40:14 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dhula-0005Jq-UY; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:40 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DhulN-0005Jf-Pm for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:25 -0700 Received: from web81303.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.78]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DhulL-0005JX-Cv for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 49672 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 19:38:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20050613193822.49670.qmail@web81303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.50.91] by web81303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:22 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10160 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=3C_qMxGF6lhMHYpvAdumlKheB3ZhClIakzoDCLfBedqfE4CccQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24531 --- Betsemes wrote: > > > >I consider it purely locational too, it's > just that I don't > > > >accept that something that is not there > can serve to indicate a > > > >location. {bu'u le karce} means "at the > location of the car", not > > > >"at any location the car ever was or will > be". {bu'u lo nu pu > > > >salci} indicates the location where a > party was held in the past, > > > >not a location where, for example, at some > point in the future, a > > > >party will have been held in the past. > > > > Who wrote that, by the way? > > Don't ever ask directions in New England! The location is there in any case, it is only the way the location is described that makes use of references to other times -- yes, even the future. Thus, tense differences here don't make the locational reference temporal. To be sure, we might want to locate things in 4-space and then we would need some added devices (or new combinations of what we have), but that does not seem to be the problem here.