From deletesoftware@yandex.ru Sat Jun 11 01:24:18 2005 Return-Path: Date: Sat Jun 11 01:24:18 2005 X-Sender: deletesoftware@yandex.ru X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61884 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2005 08:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2005 08:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx14.yandex.ru) (213.180.200.14) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2005 08:24:16 -0000 Received: from h126.keldysh.ru ([194.226.57.126]:57867 "EHLO [194.226.57.126]" smtp-auth: "deletesoftware" TLS-CIPHER: "RC4-MD5 keybits 128/128 version TLSv1/SSLv3" TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by mail.yandex.ru with ESMTP id S1782913AbVFKIYD (ORCPT ); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:24:03 +0400 X-Comment: RFC 2476 MSA function at mx14.yandex.ru logged sender identity as: deletesoftware Message-ID: <42A9F529.2010308@yandex.ru> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:16:41 +0400 Organization: Delete Software Limited User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John E. Clifford" References: <20050610180357.19300.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050610180357.19300.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 213.180.200.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Aleksej R. Serdyukov" Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban for Beginners lesson 12 answers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209292576; y=6rI7HXMgULv0HdrZIGzU9v8H5hJOYEz0xU3wVRwjxvgkkEYYx8F8VT8 X-Yahoo-Profile: deletesoftware X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24498 John E Clifford wrote: >>(St. Petersburg [sanktˈpɛtɛrspurg], >>I guess it is how it sounds in English? Why >>Moscow is more like in >>Russian, then? >>At least in Moscow pronunciation, it will be: >>[ˌsankt̆pʲetʲerˈburk] > > > English is (in Lojban transcription -- I can't > produce or read whatever these marks are) /seint Ah, yeah... > should be as close as possible to the native > name, so, I gather /maskfa/ (with some consonant /məsˈkwa/ is better, I think ({masKUAS.} or {mosKUAS.}, or rather without the stress to make it look better (not sound). Even {myskuas.}). The "o" is said to be pronounced "a" in schools, because they don't know schwa and there is no letter for it, but it is a/o/ы/ə, or maybe ɐ (for me, it is more open than schwa, but still not "a"). > which many languages have)? Is the native name > of the other place really Saint Petersburg or is > it Petrograd, which would introduce a whole other > set of issues? {la petryGRAT.}, {la pitryGRAT.} ? But the official name is Sankt Peterburg (Санкт Петербург). People call it Piter (la piter. would be not bad, but talk about official!). Petrograd XOR Peterburg is the original name, and the other one of them is one of the old names like Leningrad. > And how widely variant are the dialects of the > two cities (we should follow the local one, I > suppose)? Some sounds are reduced somehow differently, though that may not be noticed in Lojban transcriptions. I think the "t" in Sankt is unheard everywhere. Some things are also called differently, but I'm almost sure that that can't be for city names. :) As for the characters I use, it is IPA in UTF-8. And your software (or whatever) didn't corrupt them. Is it _you_ that can't read them, or the software that can't show them? The first can be fixed.