From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jun 22 11:59:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18421 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2005 18:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jun 2005 18:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2005 18:59:07 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DlARG-0005Ht-HI for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:59:06 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DlAQr-0005HK-Qq; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:58:46 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DlAQd-0005H0-Sx for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:58:28 -0700 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DlAQd-0005Gr-JU for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:58:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:58:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20050622185827.GB32424@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-archive-position: 10241 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban] Supplicatory Model: "under conditions". X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=2CXtWyU9x7jshEUJPDEFWTJr_qSwMttKYb-2a06rE6wIN3fmjw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24610 I just realized that I have no idea if "under conditions" places (such as that in zgana) are intended to be subjunctive. There are two possibilities, and I think this explains a lot of the confusion over them: 1. The x4 of zgana describes environmental conditions that happen to be in place the time of observation ("environmental" in the broadest possible sense). 2. The x4 of zgana describes those conditions that must be in place for the bridi to be true. #2 is what I've always assumed, but thinking about it now I realize that that would make things Really Wierd, given that that's not how Lojban normally works. I'd like to know which was intended. Also, suggestions on how to rephrase things for either case would be Very Much Appreciated, because the definitions should not allow for this sort of confusion. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/