From opi_lauma@yahoo.com Thu Jun 09 04:31:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: opi_lauma@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44403 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.143) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 74605 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20050609113122.74600.qmail@web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [141.2.216.130] by web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:31:22 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:31:22 -0700 (PDT) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Opi Lauma Subject: {lo}, {lu'o}, and {loi}. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=216990827; y=vNMaGlx6z8dow-Y7Fy-paYd3uBuouOe9W8Jq9ICBfYNzN87o X-Yahoo-Profile: opi_lauma X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24482 Hello, I try to systemize the usage of {lo}, {lu'o}, and {loi}. (I have started from the lessons of Nick Nicholas (http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less4articles.html)). Citation: Now consider the English sentence Three men carried a piano. This sentence has two potential meanings, as does any sentence involving a plural in English. You could be saying that the sentence holds true for each individual of the group. If the men involved are Andy, Barry, and Chris, you might be saying that Andy carried the piano, and Barry carried the piano, and Chris carried the piano. Alternatively, you could be saying that the sentence holds for the group as a unit: no one carried the piano individually, but all three men carried it together. My problem: I understood that "individual" interpretation means that sentence holds true for each individual of the group (as I understand it is necessary condition), in other words it means that Andy carried the piano, and Barry carried the piano, and Chris carried the piano. For "individual" interpretation one need to use {lo} or {le}. Ok. However it is not clear for me whether it is implied that each of them cary the piano individually. For example, if they all together carry the piano it means that each of them carry the piano, but nobody carry the piano individually. Is it still "individual" interpretation and one need to use {lo} or {le}? One can conclude that answer is "No". Because further it is written that in the second ("unit") interpretation "no one carried the piano individually", exactly as in my example. So if they all together carry the piano one need to use {lu'o}. However, if one uses {lu'o} it does not necessarily means that each person of the group take a part into the carryng of the piano. So, what I need to say if I want to say that each of them carry the piano and they do it together? __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html