From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 15 07:37:40 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E4g5j-0006G6-Af for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:37:31 -0700 Received: from web81302.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.77]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E4g5c-0006Fz-VB for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:37:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 24440 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Aug 2005 14:37:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20050815143723.24438.qmail@web81302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.33.134] by web81302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:37:23 PDT Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:37:23 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: .a'uru'e .i xu mulfanva pe pemci fa la .djabr,uakis. zasti To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <535730ee05081500373e7ac51b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-archive-position: 10361 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Yes, the available trl of J is Loglan (from more than 20 years ago, though maybe updated since). A trl ought to be relatively easy, sinc lujvo are just portmanteaux systematized. But the needed words are not often gismu (what is Lojban for "broil," say?)so the whole gets rather long (assuming we take HD's explanations as accurate -- always an iffy proposition). There is also the the issue of Lojban poetry and how that is to be applied to trls from English, roughly speaking. the various translations in Gardner's Annotated Alice provide some guidelines, but not much on the poetry issues (though the various Latins might give more, Latin poetry being somewhat different from English/French/German). --- Nora Kischer-Browne wrote: > coi rodo > > Out of curiosity, does there happen to be a > full translation of > _Jabberwocky_ lying around anywhere? I've made > an exhaustive [*] > search for one, having at first falsely > recalled that it was part of > _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ [in which > case it would have been > translated already], only to realize (and > verify, thanks to Project > Gutenberg) that it was actually near the front > of _Through the Looking > Glass_. [**] I have come across the following > stub > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Jabberwocky > > on the wiki, but, to my dismay, it's far from > complete. It also > appears to be in Loglan--that, or jbovlaste has > suddenly become unable > to recognise certain gismu. Aside from wanting > to read such a > translation, I would love it if we were able to > post it to sites that > collect translations of this work [+] . > However, seeing as how > translation in general--and of this poem, > especially!--is a daunting > task even when it's merely into another natural > language (cf. Martin > Gardner's and Douglas R. Hofstadter's > ruminations on portmanteau and > nonsense words), I can understand why there > wouldn't be. Maybe when > I've become a bit more experienced with the > tongue, here, I could aid > the effort. > > mu'o mi'e .noras. > > > [*] Well, it exhausts -me-... > [**] You'd think, after reading the cursed > things so many times, > I'd've learned my lesson, but alas... > [+] > http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/index.html > , for example. I mean, come ON. He's got a > partial translation into > -Klingon-, already, of all things. > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to > http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to > secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.