From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Aug 05 07:52:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24121 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2005 14:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2005 14:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2005 14:51:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E13WY-0006Hs-9N for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:50:14 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E13W3-0006Gt-VK; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:49:49 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E13Vm-0006Gi-JK for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:49:26 -0700 Received: from web81303.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.78]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E13Vl-0006Ga-0I for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:49:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 77164 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Aug 2005 14:49:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20050805144923.77162.qmail@web81303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.143.141.46] by web81303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 07:49:23 PDT Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 07:49:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <42F2D602.4040406@phma.hn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-archive-position: 10309 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: the meter is a unit of length X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=Gk54cxkid4HL6JDRkS0O3g_D7w4Rev9DRVGNA6TmnWD49qQpxQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24686 --- Pierre Abbat wrote: > John E Clifford wrote: > > > > This doesn't look right. x1 of {gradu}is a > unit > > of measurement, x1 of {klani} is a magnitude > on a > > scalem so presumably a number or some such > thing, > > x1 of {mitre} is a physical object (which x1 > of > > {gradu} may be, but need not be, and x1 of > > {klani} can't be). This may be as close as > > Lojban gets to a Whorf effect: meters can't > be > > things here so we have to find some new way > of > > talking (and thinking?) around what we > usually > > say taking a meter to be a sort (but what > sort?) > > of thing. > > To me, x1 of {klani} is a thing being measured, > just as x1 of {mitre} > is, so it's a general unit word. So I use it to > form words like > {tcatymuclai}, using them like {litce} or > {dekpu} or other such words: > {le vi sanso cu tcatymuclai li re}. As I said later, scratch that comment about {klani}. But x1 does not appear to be a unit, though it is what is measured (to x2 on scale x3). Your compounds picks up x3 to "bury" in the predicate. In that sense, {klani} is just the word for making these compounds (though, note, you are technically following xorxes' suggestion and making x3 (as it were) the unit, not the scale (which is a goood idea, since we know what the units are generally but the scale escapes us). Although again we have the issue of what to do with scales that don't have units (comparative and qualitative scales in the old terminology). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.