From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Aug 30 11:34:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18521 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 18:34:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 18:34:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 18:34:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAAwE-0001fR-Io for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:34:26 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EAAuc-0001do-WB; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAAuK-0001df-2e for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:28 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EAAuI-0001dY-Er for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:27 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i23so656412wra for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.18.75 with SMTP id 75mr5171021wrr; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.66.7 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d175605083011321e2263eb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:32:25 -0300 In-Reply-To: <43144310.4010903@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2955_30287078.1125426745171" References: <8f2fd4aa05082316284b2b3763@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160508240651591fb7df@mail.gmail.com> <8f2fd4aa050824101538967457@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605082411443d1e75a9@mail.gmail.com> <430E17E4.8070504@yandex.ru> <925d17560508260627655e83df@mail.gmail.com> <430F624A.5070009@yandex.ru> <925d17560508270742790f5a58@mail.gmail.com> <43144310.4010903@yandex.ru> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 10466 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: lojban-list Digest V4 #181 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=1eGTYoHRMPMN-BuUmm6P8oWoBHFMAMMn6s2xKHC1Gmo6ptZ4sQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24847 ------=_Part_2955_30287078.1125426745171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 8/30/05, Aleksej R. Serdyukov wrote:=20 >=20 > Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > On 8/26/05, Aleksej R. Serdyukov wrote: >>>{zai} converts the following lerfu or tei-foi group into an > >>>alphabet shift, so you'd probably want > >>>{zai tei basna bu tcita bu foi} or {zai basnytcita bu}. > >>The list says "zai" is a 2-word letteral shift. So does jbofi'e think. > > > > Yes, {zai} is the first word, and the immediately following lerfu or > > tei-foi group is the second "word". >=20 > Er.. isn't it: >=20 > zai [alphabet name] [1st word in the alphabet] [2nd word in the alphabet] >=20 > ? No, I don't think so. > > What's the use of shifting an alphabet of one word to unspecified? It changes the alphabet of all following lerfu. CLL gives=20 this example: {zai xanlerfu bu ly o bu jy by a bu ny}=20 which apparently spells the word "lojban" in sign=20 language. {zai xanlerfu bu} says that all coming lerfu=20 are in sign language. As you can see, the alphabet=20 used for writing all the words is just the usual Latin=20 one throughout. It's just that the word {ly} now instead of=20 relating to the sign "L" it relates to the hand sign for that=20 letter. I have no idea when something like this would be=20 useful, though. I think the whole lerfu shifts are a waste=20 of cmavo. =20=20 > Or rather: > zai [alphabet indicator letter] [a letter meaning a letter in the=20 > alphabet] > (according to what jbofihe says: > 0[{<(1zai a bu)1 e bu> BOI} VAU])0 > ) Here {a bu} names the new alphabet, and {e bu} is the lerfu of the new alphabet which is being used. But used for what? >>It's an edited alphabet, isn't it? > > > > But what will you use it for? When would it be needed? >=20 > It looks better. > And I had thought that zai was for switching Lojban orthographies. Can you give an example sentence of how you would use it? mu'o mi'e xorxes ------=_Part_2955_30287078.1125426745171 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 8/30/05, = Aleksej R. Serdyukov <de= letesoftware@yandex.ru> wrote:
Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:
> = On 8/26/05, Aleksej R. Serdyukov < deletesoftware@yandex.ru> wrote:
>>>{zai} converts the f= ollowing lerfu or tei-foi group into an
>>>alphabet shift, so y= ou'd probably want
>>>{zai tei basna bu tcita bu foi} or {zai basnytcita bu}.
= >>The list says "zai" is a 2-word letteral shift. So does j= bofi'e think.
>
> Yes, {zai} is the first word, and the immedia= tely following lerfu or
> tei-foi group is the second "word".

Er.. isn't it= :

zai [alphabet name] [1st word in the alphabet] [2nd word in the al= phabet]

?
 
No, I don't think so.
 
>
What's the use of shifting an al= phabet of one word to unspecified?
 
It changes the alphabet of all following lerfu. CLL gives
this example: {zai xanlerfu bu ly o bu jy by a bu ny}
which apparently spells the word "lojban" in sign
language. {zai xanlerfu bu} says that all coming lerfu
are in sign language. As you can see, the alphabet
used for writing all the words is just the usual Latin =
one throughout. It's just that the word {ly} now instead of
relating to the sign "L" it relates to the hand sign for tha= t
letter. I have no idea when something like this would be
useful, though. I think the whole lerfu shifts are a waste
of cmavo.
 
 
Or rather:
zai [alphabet indi= cator letter] [a letter meaning a letter in the alphabet]
(according to = what jbofihe says:
0[{<(1zai a bu)1 e bu> BOI} VAU])0
)
 
 
Here {a bu} names the new alphabet, and {e bu} is the lerfu
of the new alphabet which is being used. But used for what?
=
>>It's an edited alphabet,= isn't it?
>
> But what will you use it for? When would it be n= eeded?

It looks better.
And I had thought that zai was for switching Lo= jban orthographies.
 
Can you give an example sentence of how you would use it?
 
mu'o mi'e xorxes
 
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