From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Aug 04 08:56:16 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8540 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2005 15:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2005 15:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2005 15:56:15 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E0i4r-0002lC-L8 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:56:13 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E0i3N-0002k4-NR; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:54:46 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E0i37-0002jv-0d for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:54:25 -0700 Received: from web81308.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.83]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E0i34-0002jo-Er for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:54:24 -0700 Received: (qmail 43376 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Aug 2005 15:54:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20050804155420.43374.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.143.141.46] by web81308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:54:20 PDT Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 08:54:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560508040732149c1eeb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-archive-position: 10303 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: the meter is a unit of length X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=rGQ_p0jEZbWDUUHY5pdIMNimgo5raaq4nZiDGT_rTyGLzMow7g X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 24680 --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 8/3/05, Pierre Abbat > wrote: > > How do I say this in Lojban? The obvious > translation, {lo mitre cu gradu > > fi lo nilcla}, means "something measured in > meters is a unit of length". > > I would say: {lo mitre [be li pa] cu gradu > [fe/fi] lo nilcla}. Aside from the (probably insignificant here) problems with using {lo} in a sentence of this sort, it is not the case that the unit of length is some- (or any-)thing that is a meter long. If RLP's suggestion is too abstract, this is too concrete. What we mean when we say the English sentence is something like {le se mitre cu ni clani}, "How many meters a thing is is its length," more or less (we could fill in some of the blanks for greater precision here). This doesn't *say* that the meter is a unit of length, but does the work that claim is meant to do and so implicates it. Given Lojban's predicatizing of measures, it is a little hard to see what can go in for the first place of {gradu}, if that word means anything like its English translation (which it very well may not, of course -- and this problem seems some indication that it does not). > > What is the difference between the x2 and x3 of > {gradu}? Trusting the English more than seems justified, x2 is a scale (presumably a system of measures: vaious units and some external specifications of them (the old scratch on a platinum-iridium bar or some weird multiple of the wavelength of some color in some spectrum). It is interesting that that is marked as {si'o}, the same as one suggested marker to convert {mitre} into "is a meter." x3 is just some property (or, more likely, the quantitative aspect of some property -- {ni}) > I don't see any problem in using {lo mitre be > li pa} for the generic > meter. > See above. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.