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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.hn.org>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban] Re: a very difficult translation
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 02:37:50 -0400
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On Saturday 03 September 2005 23:58, Matt Arnold wrote:
> I just translated the most horrible sentence ever. I suspect it is too
> advanced for the beginner's list, but please tell me if it should go there.
> "For to stay, though the hours burn in the night, is to freeze and
> crystallize and be bound in a mould."
> The best I could do was this monstrosity:
> .i lomu'e stali le mu'inai du'u losu'u se cacra cu pe'a jelca ca lo nicte
> kei cu jalge lomu'e dunja .e lomu'e krili .e lomu'e lasna ne'i morna calku
> Perhaps it's the best that can be done. At least jbofi'e parses it. What do
> you think? Am I correct to use {su'u} (unspecified abstraction) to indicate
> the abstraction of hours themselves rather than something measured in
> hours? Am I correct to use {mu'inai} to mean "in spite of"? Am I correct to
> use {mu'e} (point-event abstract) to indicate the infinitive tense? Or
> should I use {co'i} (achievative) for that? Or something else?

I would use {nu} for the infinitive. The staying is not here treated as a 
point event; it lasts for several burning hours.

I think what you want is {stali mu'inai lo nu le cacra}. {le mu'inai du'u ... 
jelca} means "despite something unspecified, that ... burns" or something 
like that.

For translating "the hours burn", I'd have to see the context. {lo su'u 
cacra}, or {lo si'o cacra} or whatever the appropriate abstractor is, means 
"an hour" considered as an abstract unit. The hours that burn are periods of 
time in some particular night, and therefore the phrase should be translated 
{le cacra}.

phma


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