From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Sep 16 17:56:39 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EGR0G-0004Lc-SV for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:28 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EGR06-0004LI-95 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:28 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k1so90621nzf for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=p4Na9LNQhOj+480i5+BKRit22pSfh0fQcTGy4J2XgpznLDj5TEC1s91S2I9MA3+M/AfQmm43DIEXBAfsbsnYzz/UfCVgwJLJdc4oZGigkbgkVO8JOiwcgGIOQ7xOTD3vagF1G1yot5HdAimAXkPICJf4bVq5h71DFmXLsK/WGeI= Received: by 10.54.110.10 with SMTP id i10mr143244wrc; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.66.3 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d1756050916175611735157@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:56:03 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Wheels in my Head In-Reply-To: <8f2fd4aa0509151931507cdc42@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <8f2fd4aa05091500343852e987@mail.gmail.com> <200509151546.42138.phma@phma.hn.org> <8f2fd4aa05091514151b3f6cb7@mail.gmail.com> <8f2fd4aa05091514431061dd5b@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605091518303b4b7bb2@mail.gmail.com> <8f2fd4aa0509151931507cdc42@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 10607 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 9/15/05, Brandon Wirick wrote: > > If you stress the first A you get two words: bangrspe ranto. > > Okay, so what's it supposed to be, {bangrsperAnto}? Yep. Only one stress per brivla. > {retsku} is not so easy, because the {tsk} cluster needs to be broken > up somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it permissible to > assume a very short {ybu} between {ty} and {sy} in this case? Well, yes and no. You can insert a non-lojban vowel between any pair of consonants, but not in general "y". In my proposed morphology you can use "y" after any CVC rafsi, so in this example {retysku} and {retsku} is the same word. But you couldn't insert a "y" in the middle of a fu'ivla. > Thoughts on this? Would this facilitate or hinder understanding of > Lojban syllables? Also, wouldn't this be a great format for synthetic > Lojban speech programs? What other words seem troublesome? The breaks don't always look like syllables to me. With my morphology, the total number of syllables is 47602 (if my count is correct, counting stressed and unstressed as distinct) so 65536 is more than enough, but they don't pattern the way you have them. There are 64 consonantal syllables (a consonant followed by l, m, n or r) and the rest are syllabic ones. The syllabic ones can be divided in three parts: an onset, a nucleus and a coda. The nuclei and the codas are the simplest: 19 possible nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, á, é, í, ó, ú, ái, áu, éi, ói, y. (Notice that "y" is never stressed, and the nucleus can't be empty.) 18 possible codas: -, b, c, d, f, g, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, x, z (The 17 consonants and nothing.) There are 121 possible onsets, which can be divided in four classes: 36 semi-consonantal: i, bi, ci, di, fi, gi, ji, ki, li, mi, ni, pi, ri, si, ti, vi, xi, zi u, bu, cu, du, fu, gu, ju, ku, lu, mu, nu, pu, ru, su, tu, vu, xu zu 1 (the apostrophe): ' 4 affricates: tc, ts, dj, dz The 98 listed here: (This list includes the 4 affricates, but they really don't fit the same pattern. The glottal stop is included.) So in all we have: (98 + 4 + 1 + 36) * 19 * 18 + 64 = 47602 mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.