From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Sep 28 09:17:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96521 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2005 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2005 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2005 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EKeZq-0008Nx-IH for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:14:38 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EKeXa-0008Mb-6Z; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:12:23 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EKeXI-0008Lq-KB for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:12:00 -0700 Received: from web81306.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.81]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EKeXH-0008Lj-0p for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:12:00 -0700 Received: (qmail 6812 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Sep 2005 16:11:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20050928161157.6810.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.34.50] by web81306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:11:57 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:11:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560509280553173adf1c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-archive-position: 10663 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: xorlo podcast X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=tsnlK1dDC6QTOCDIQl6PJKC9TD64mJA2txScPbzMLg5Yfb05FA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25048 --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 9/27/05, John E Clifford > wrote: > > --- Jorge Llambías > wrote: > > > > > Here is an example of something that was > very > > > hard to say before > > > and now is easy: > > > > > > mi terpa ci da no'u lo jukni .e lo gerku > .e > > > lo nu le tsani cu farlu > > > le stedu be mi > > > "I fear exactly three things: spiders, > dogs > > > and that the sky fall > > > on my head." > > for help. > > > > That way of putting it suggests that just > this > > would not work to this purpose in prelo. > > It wouldn't. With prelo (i.e. with {lo} = {su'o > lo}) this would > say: "I fear exactly three things: at least one > spider, at > least one dog and at least one event of the sky > falling on > my head." You are quite right: exactly those words in that order will not work, because prelo requires {tu'a} with {terpa}, but this is always the difference, so I didn't feel the need to mention it. Boring automatic changes give: mi terpa ci da no'u tu'a lo jukni .e tu'a lo gerku .e lo nu le tsani cu farlu le stedu be mi (I assume {tu'a} is not needed with {lo nu} although I can imagine a case ...). The identification of prelo {lo} with {su'o lo} is not quite accurate. {ro lo} would work better, though there exceptions even to that, I think. > That's a different meaning, which can be done > (this > hasn't changed) as: > {mi terpa ci da no'u su'o jukni .e su'o gerku > .e > su'o nu le tsani cu farlu le stedu be mi} This sentence is strictly solecistic in prelo, since it lacks the {tu'a}s as noted above. It does have an interpetation, of couse, name that I fear some particular spiders and some particular dogs. That is, omission of {tu'a} means (by convention) that fronting is permitted as a valid move. I do not think thiis was intended in wither case. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.