From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Oct 09 06:58:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1958 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2005 13:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2005 13:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2005 13:58:38 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EObTW-0006Ir-Sm for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:44:27 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EObSB-0006Hh-JP; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:43:06 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EObRq-0006HW-5k for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:42:42 -0700 Received: from web81301.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.76]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EObRn-0006HP-Tc for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:42:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 74543 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Oct 2005 13:42:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20051009134238.74541.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.34.50] by web81301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:42:38 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20051009051728.Q45380@mail.sksys.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-archive-position: 10721 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: tense and negation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=76iBfJVaN8ol-2cH86nd_KzECknFW9y_kgUiu3iruHlcXcC16Q X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25108 --- Cyril Slobin wrote: > coi rodo > > Does among the multiple lojban negators exist > one, wich, applying to > {pu}, yields {ca ja ba}? The sort of inversion > of the time axis wanted. > Scope problem. Both tense and negation go just before the selbri of a sentence and both are said to have the whole as scope. Which one is outermost is unclear (a recurrent problem for logicians). However, you can be explicit by fronting the forms and arranging them in order {naku pu} vs {pu naku} (or some such). {punai} also parsed in the old days, though what it means exactly is less than obvious. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.