From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Oct 28 12:40:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24563 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2005 19:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2005 19:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2005 19:40:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EVa59-0004XJ-79 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:40:07 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EVa4X-0004VC-S3; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:30 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EVa4F-0004V2-Up for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:12 -0700 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com ([66.249.82.206]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EVa4F-0004Uu-0v for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:11 -0700 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h29so490216wxd for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.53.3 with SMTP id b3mr442776wxa; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.117.10 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160510281239g30f78bcbs3454b30506e7ca62@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:39:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <925d17560510281139g37adf21cta7dabb247fb1ba61@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6093_1176428.1130528349702" References: <12d58c160510280915x764d9b8du4ba3f9a68d9742e1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560510281139g37adf21cta7dabb247fb1ba61@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-archive-position: 10736 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adamgarrigus@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Adam COOPER From: Adam COOPER Reply-To: adamgarrigus@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: citri lo glibau X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=H_KWKjoqgrdU67FBrXR0Dl9svyczJxHBgHvfhyH8EsbnSjb4wA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25125 ------=_Part_6093_1176428.1130528349702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/28/05, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > On 10/28/05, Adam COOPER wrote: > > > pi so'i lo selbau cu ke se sadgunta je tolselctu ke'e natmrkamri > > tercange > > Perhaps you meant: > > (se sadgunta je tolselctu) (ke natmrkamri tercange [ke'e]) > > which would sound more like in English. It is not very clear to > me though why any grouping is necessary, since at least > in a naive logical view the meaning is: > > se sadgunta je tolsectu je natmrkamri je tercange > > One wouldn't say it like that in English, but I can't quite > put my finger on why not. I think {se sadgunta je tolselctu} {ke natmrkamri tercange [ke'e]} *is* wha= t I meant. And I think the undertone is that the peasants were Welsh by birth= , but their being uneducated & conquered were circumstances that could have worked out differently. So {natmrkamri} wants to be bound more closely to {tercange}. That being said, it's an anachronistic view, because back then such a person was as much a peasant by birth as he was Welsh, whereas now you can be born into a tenant farming or small-holding family, but go on to become a poet. But you're still Welsh. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_6093_1176428.1130528349702 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/28/05, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/28/05, Adam COOPER <adam= garrigus@gmail.com> wrote:

> pi so'i lo selbau cu ke se sa= dgunta je tolselctu ke'e natmrkamri
> tercange

Perhaps you mea= nt:

(se sadgunta je tolselctu) (ke natmrkamri tercange [ke'e])

= which would sound more like in English. It is not very clear to
me thoug= h why any grouping is necessary, since at least
in a naive logical view = the meaning is:

se sadgunta je tolsectu je natmrkamri je tercange

One would= n't say it like that in English, but I can't quite
put my finger on why = not.

I think {se sadgunta je tolselctu} {ke natmrkamri tercange [ke'e]} *is* what I meant. And I think the undertone is that the peasants were Welsh by birth, but their being uneducated & conquered were circumstances that could have worked out differently. So {natmrkamri} wants to be bound more closely to {tercange}. That being said, it's an anachronistic view, because back then such a person was as much a peasant by birth as he was Welsh, whereas now you can be born into a tenant farming or small-holding family, but go on to become a poet. But you're still Welsh.

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan
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