From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Nov 08 05:27:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83030 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2005 13:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2005 13:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2005 13:27:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EZTVm-0007Ct-26 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:27:42 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EZTUA-0007By-Hq; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:26:03 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EZTTk-0007Bj-Ii for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:25:36 -0800 Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.206]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EZTTj-0007Bc-3P for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:25:36 -0800 Received: from MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id d.149.51471478 (24895) for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:25:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <149.51471478.30a20146@wmconnect.com> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:25:26 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_149.51471478.30a20146_boundary" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 52 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-archive-position: 10762 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com From: lojban-out@lojban.org Reply-To: MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com Subject: [lojban] Lojban translation of English "we" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=PoINFvfIF3vOEsxkAeJa-0Sc6R_WKPlUCcHxwrFh8Tx2RiMECQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25153 --part1_149.51471478.30a20146_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/2005 4:21:57 AM Central Standard Time, ecartis@digitalkingdom.org writes: > is there an EXACT translation of English pronoun "we" > (the semantics of which is something like: > me, the speaker, and AT LEAST one other person somehow related to me)? > > neither mi, nor mi'e do fit: > > mi > KOhA3 > me > pro-sumti: me/we the speaker(s)/author(s); identified by self-vocative > > mi'a > KOhA3 > we, not you > pro-sumti: me/we the speaker(s)/author(s) & others unspecified, but not you, > the listener > > > we can see from these definitions that both mi and mi'a could mean "me", > which is far from what "we" means :) > The words which can mean 'we' in Lojban are: mi = 1st person (singular or plural) mi'o = 1st person + 2nd person (inclusive) mi'a = 1st person + 3rd person (exclusive) ma'a = 1st person + 2nd person + 3rd person I'd say "ma'a" is the closest to "we". The others are more specific. stevo --part1_149.51471478.30a20146_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message= dated 11/8/2005 4:21:57 AM Central Standard Time, ecartis@digitalkingdom.o= rg writes:


is there an EXACT transla= tion of English pronoun "we"
(the semantics of which is something like:
me, the speaker, and AT LEAST one other person somehow related to me)?

neither mi, nor mi'e do fit:

mi        
KOhA3    
me
pro-sumti: me/we the speaker(s)/author(s); identified by self-vocative

mi'a
KOhA3
we, not you
pro-sumti: me/we the speaker(s)/author(s) & others unspecified, but= not you, the listener


we can see from these definitions that both mi and mi'a could mean "me"= , which is far from what "we" means :)


The words which can mean 'we' in Lojban are:
mi =3D 1st person (singular or plural)
mi'o =3D 1st person + 2nd person (inclusive)
mi'a =3D 1st person + 3rd person (exclusive)
ma'a =3D 1st person + 2nd person + 3rd person

I'd say "ma'a" is the closest to "we".  The others are more specif= ic.

stevo --part1_149.51471478.30a20146_boundary--