From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Dec 13 16:29:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60630 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2005 00:29:04 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmKVc-0003Xu-Cj for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:28:40 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EmKUS-0003WR-Dw; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:27:31 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmKU2-0003W6-MQ for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:27:02 -0800 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmKU2-0003Vz-CJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:27:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:27:02 -0800 Message-ID: <20051214002702.GO3329@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20051208071730.GY25496@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <4398939A.1090806@lojban.org> <20051209012929.GD2106@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <1E7AC75C-B8B7-4749-ADA5-F5FBF8CC4C44@mac.com> <925d17560512091007p194e507t2461a44906f94350@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <925d17560512091007p194e507t2461a44906f94350@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-archive-position: 10874 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban] Re: A Proposed Explanation of {gunma} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=CnJOOBsMEKh89an1hxtKCXcY0rigK30VPeVhjZGCNejT6I6SUw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25270 On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 03:07:09PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: > On 12/8/05, Kevin Reid wrote: > > I have thought that the most sensible explanation is that the x2 > > of {gunma} is a set. Today, a discussion with Robin Lee Powell > > and John Cowan on #lojban resulted in the following complete > > list of conversions, which we agree is sufficient and > > consistent: > > > > x1 kind x2 kind relation > > gunma mass set x2 is the set of all the parts of x1 > > cmima individual set x1 is a member of x2 > > pagbu individual mass x1 is a part of x2 > > selgunma set mass se gunma > > selcmi set individual se cmima > > selpau mass individual se pagbu > > > > The other simple explanation of {gunma}, that the x2 is all of the > > members as individuals, is incompatible with predicate logic. > > Or at least with predicate logic without plural reference. But any > treatment of masses that does not reduce them to just another > variety of sets is on the same boat. > > I would oppose redefining {gunma} in this way. OK. What do you think the current definition means, then? In particular, what sorts of things (WRT indiv, mass, set) go in the x1 and x2? -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.