From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Dec 19 11:00:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90043 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2005 19:00:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2005 19:00:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2005 19:00:13 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EoQDV-0006Kf-B6 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:58:37 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EoQCw-0006K9-Nk; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:58:03 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EoQCV-0006K0-Un for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:57:36 -0800 Received: from genamics.blastula.net ([205.214.85.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.54) id 1EoQCV-0006Js-3i for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:57:35 -0800 Received: from [203.184.15.193] (helo=[203.184.15.193]) by genamics.blastula.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1EoQBv-0007ZC-CS for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:57:03 +1300 Message-ID: <43A7B9A0.60201@gulik.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:58:24 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051011) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <847037620.20051217094424@mail.ru> In-Reply-To: <847037620.20051217094424@mail.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - genamics.blastula.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lojban.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gulik.co.nz X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-archive-position: 10934 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mikevdg@gulik.co.nz X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Michael van der Gulik From: Michael van der Gulik Reply-To: mikevdg@gulik.co.nz Subject: [lojban] Re: Chess-and-Tetris Hypothesis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=8sMeVo_mq8OLoTEQBNVCnTdQveub4ZsSCsTOEdB6Yqblvj-igQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25330 Yanis Batura wrote: > Hypothesis 1: Expression of implicit relation between words in a > sentence, relying on a context, the feature of natural-language texts, > doesn't require thinking. > > > Hypothesis 2: Explicit, hierarchical, formula-like expression of > relations between words in sentences requires thinking and doesn't get > accustomed to. > > > HYPOTHESIS 3 (Chess-and-Tetris hypothesis): THERE IS A DIFFERENCE > BETWEEN NATURAL-TYPE LANGUAGES AND NON-NATURAL-TYPE LANGUAGES LIKE > DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TETRIS AND CHESS. HUMAN BRAIN WILL NEVER GET > ACCUSTOMED TO NON-NATURAL-TYPE LANGUAGES TO THE GRADE WHEN IT WON'T > THINK WHILE SPEAKING THEM. > I don't agree. The human brain is a neural network, and as such, it is particularly good at recognising patterns. Over time, patterns are easier to work with as the neurons do their magic. When learning or speaking a language, our brains are constantly on the lookout for patterns. One thing I discovered when I learned Dutch is that it isn't the actual words that I needed to remember, but the phrases they're used in. My brain can piece together phrases much easier (being at a higher level of abstraction) than words. As Lojban is learned, we'll also pick out the phrases used such as "...goi ko'a... ko'a cu..." This phrase is fairly recognisable by my standards and is no worse than any other form of back-reference (such as the previous "this" in this sentence) in natural languages. As a Lojbanic beginner, I find the "...goi ko'a..." construct invaluable. Michael. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.