From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Dec 14 13:48:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19112 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2005 21:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2005 21:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2005 21:48:38 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmeUD-0008C1-HO for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:48:33 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EmeT9-0008Ao-Ho; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:47:30 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmeSk-0008AT-C0 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:47:02 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.201]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EmeSh-0008A9-3b for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:47:02 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so214294wri for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.122.19 with SMTP id u19mr1266619wrc; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.1 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:46:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560512141346t2467a547y6ba5967a19169891@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:46:54 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20051214213111.GY3616@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051208071730.GY25496@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <4398939A.1090806@lojban.org> <20051209012929.GD2106@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <1E7AC75C-B8B7-4749-ADA5-F5FBF8CC4C44@mac.com> <925d17560512091007p194e507t2461a44906f94350@mail.gmail.com> <20051214002702.GO3329@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d17560512131738w2a0bbf4bi61a99d240b6e922a@mail.gmail.com> <20051214061237.GF3616@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d17560512141021u2f41a11g644faf6abffe7ba6@mail.gmail.com> <20051214213111.GY3616@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10884 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: A Proposed Explanation of {gunma} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=Za0zEQIwosmpcQ52urKdAoREp5jh13fHuXQGqkx-5HiakeqNWA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25280 On 12/14/05, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 03:21:16PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: > > Or {ju'o}. > > You must mean jo'u. Oops, yes, I did. > The problem with jo'u is that it doesn't *mean* anything. You can't > both be a collective *and* be unmixed; it's total lunacy. It's undefined, just like {lo}. jo'u:joi::lo::loi > "mi joi do" means nothing whatsoever outside of a predication, and > it's confusing to talk as though it does. We agree then. In particular, it does not refer to a single entity that contains us. > "mi joi do broda" means that you and I together did broda in such a > way that our involvement cannot reasonably be seperated. Masses > only have meaning relative to predications. This is something that > http://philosophy.syr.edu/mckay.html cleared up for me. Indeed. Then {mi joi do se gunma ko'a} means that you and I, together, constitute the single entity ko'a. {mi joi do} refers to two things, you and I, whereas {ko'a} refers to a single thing, that which you and I constitute, let's say a society. Then {mi joi do na du ko'a}. > > For me, it is sets that are totally useless. > > I disagree, and will fight on this as much as I can. Sets in Lojban seem to be like gender in some languages. You just have to memorize which places require them, and then use sets in those places. There are hints to guess which places will require them, but no sure rule. And no ambiguity whatsoever, as far as I can tell, would result from using masses in those places instead. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.