From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Dec 06 12:07:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55053 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2005 20:07:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2005 20:07:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2005 20:07:28 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1Ejj2l-0007Lo-LD for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:04:07 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1Ejj26-0007L4-4c; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:03:28 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:03:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1Ejj1n-0007Kn-JW for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:03:07 -0800 Received: from web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.125]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.54) id 1Ejj1m-0007Kg-2S for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:03:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 39768 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Dec 2005 20:03:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20051206200305.39766.qmail@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.168.167] by web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:03:05 PST Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:03:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <55b258c20512061132m4d5bd5eawaf73523316f6b6d8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-archive-position: 10838 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: logo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=eY7h3sg8RY9KweiF6Jgu3u_lm5r4ePEt-bIHB4TbcKupLKWxbg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25233 --- Craig Daniel wrote: > > > pity about the place in the head in my > opinion. > > > Subject, Verb, rest of > > > sentence is so Standard average European. > In > > > fact, it's strange how > > > many European languages almost always have > the > > > verb in 2nd position! > > > > > > Greg > > > > Why strange? European languages -- with a > couple > > of exceptions (and I don't know their > standard > > word order) -- are all related, many fairly > > closely. On the 9other hand, many European > > languages do have a common SOV pattern -- > with > > pronoun objects for example. And, > Sapir-Whorf > > test notwithstanding, Lojban is very much an > SAE > > language (as is First Order Predicate > Calculus, > > although it is usually VSO not SVO). > > Ah, but many of them developed SVO order > independently; it wasn't > inherited from PIE. Anglo-Saxon was a VO > language, but Latin was > primarily OV; this order remains in certain > situations in Spanish, > which is a default VO language. "Independently" does not make much sense in a place as small as Europe or as full of constantly marauding bands. To be sure, it is not clear that PIE was SVO (and it probably wasn't) nor even Latin and Gothic, etc. but we can follow the rubbing off one another that led to the common pattern today (and for some considerable time in the past). > OTOH, my Lojban uses SOV order a bit more than > is typical. Interesting. Have you had any problems with this? VSO gets incomprehension at least occasionally. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.