From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Dec 15 16:51:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5387 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2005 00:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2005 00:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2005 00:51:41 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1En3oE-0000uD-Dt for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:50:54 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1En3ne-0000to-8w; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:50:21 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1En3nE-0000tA-9n for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:49:52 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1En3nA-0000t0-Af for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:49:52 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so486786wri for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.79.8 with SMTP id c8mr2981233wrb; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.1 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:49:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560512151649w34dd7b5eg2cc377f310ef52e8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:49:42 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20051215204921.57958.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051215194359.33300.qmail@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20051215204921.57958.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10904 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: A Proposed Explanation of {gunma} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=0kihiUihBr_IMg4ts3-wuCRzGLH_QGPM03tSfgcmINe56sf0Vg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25300 On 12/15/05, John E Clifford wrote: > Looking over that chapter again, I note that > McKay is doing a very different thing there. He > is arguing that plural quantification/reference > cannot be reduced to any singularist version and > that it does not require a singularist > underpinning of any sort. All of which I agree > with; I am only saying that there are singularist > systems that are formally indistinguishable from > plural reference/quantification. Isn't that contradictory? If plural reference cannot be reduced to any singularist version, how can it be equivalent to some singularist system? After all, > bunch theory does not *say* there is a bunch that > so and so, it just says that something is so and > so, leaving it open what that something is/are: > aF & bF & cF => [Ed]d-F regardless. Put another > way, McKay uses "plurality" and "plurals" in ways > that are to the naked eye not different from the > way a singularist uses "set" or "fusion" and this > is even more true in the formalism. > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.