From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Jan 09 11:40:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53140 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 19:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 19:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 19:40:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew2pZ-0006xr-7N for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:37:25 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew2p0-0006xF-8Y; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:36:52 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew2ob-0006ww-E2 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:36:25 -0800 Received: from h-66-134-26-207.nycmny83.covad.net ([66.134.26.207] helo=pi.meson.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew2oX-0006wl-Uu for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:36:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 865 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 19:36:20 -0000 Received: from nagas.meson.org (HELO ?192.168.1.101?) (1000@192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 19:36:20 -0000 Message-ID: <43C2BB33.1080309@kli.org> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:36:19 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060109192911.17256.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060109192911.17256.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 11024 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mark@kli.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Mark E. Shoulson" From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Reply-To: mark@kli.org Subject: [lojban] Re: cmevla a class of brivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=9zuovWsyDDBZeoMOSCjySPjaouvkpToeZZYcFdGAjYOmkycd_A X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25423 John E Clifford wrote: >>That's irrelevant; I don't like proposing >>changes to the language >>when what's there isn't broken. >> >> > >But whether it is broken depends upon where you >draw the line; betsemes' examples look close to >that line on almost any definition of "broken" >(short of "Can't say it at all") and way over it >on some. Since what happens between {la} and the >next significant pause is pretty open, both in >form and interpretation, we need not to the >overly analytic version for "Little John," but >the predicate case seems to have no obvious >alternative (well, hooking {lai kraislr} on at >the end by some BAI, rather than by {me} in the >predication directly -- but that is not on the >present topic). > N.B., in betsemes' case (la poi cmalu djan.) there is a mandatory and "significant" pause before {djan}, or else we're dealing with a cmene {poicmaludjAN}. Not pausing before cmene is permitted only directly after la/lai/doi. ~mark To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.