From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Jan 08 10:19:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30351 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 18:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 18:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 18:19:44 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evf2i-0000AT-OR for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:13:24 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evf1R-00009a-95; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:12:07 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evf10-00009R-Uu for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:11:39 -0800 Received: from phma.hn.org ([166.82.175.165] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evf0z-00009K-PM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:11:38 -0800 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 16D476F7; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:11:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 13:11:39 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20060105063129.GY3931@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <43C06EED.5010501@lojban.org> <925d17560601080731t6b8d0742h26f87aa35292f1b6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560601080731t6b8d0742h26f87aa35292f1b6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200601081311.40773.phma@phma.hn.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-archive-position: 11015 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.hn.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.hn.org Subject: [lojban] Re: stage 1 and 2 non-fu'ivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=uXEGjKTbTk39HOV8df9a77YSEGZlZPIHX6W7TLLu36cZsgSNEA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25414 On Sunday 08 January 2006 10:31, Jorge Llambías wrote: > I would do them as {djon}, {djan}, {djein} and {djen}, but "John" has > been traditionally lojbanized as {djan}. (There's also {djin} and {djun} > for "Gene" and "June".) Then there are "Jeanne", "Jean", "Jean", and "Zhang", at least two of which are {jan} in Lojban, and as we now have two names, one English, one French, with the same spelling, one of which has the same pronunciation as "Gene", we have to use last names or other disambiguators no matter which language we're talking. > The current baseline corresponds to the CLL definition, which makes > the {me} selbri apply to the referents of the sumti, so it would not work > with a quote directly. {me zoi zoi spaghetti zoi} is "x1 is the word > 'spaghetti' " and not "x1 is a quantity of spaghetti". {me la'e zoi} might > work though. > > The ma'oste definition of {me} would give "x1 is specific to the word > 'spaghetti' in aspect x2", which is not all that clear what it means. I take {me} in type-1 and type-2 fu'ivla to be merely a syntactic word turning a sumti into a selbri, whose place structure can be anything. {ti me la ko'oc. la xekri} "This is black cohosh" (different colors of cohosh are completely unrelated, so I don't think I'd use that word for a type 3 or 4). {mi me la'o gy. Virginia reel .gy. lo damryjgita} "I do the Virginia reel to the banjo". {le damba cu me ky.obu le bradi} "The fighter KOed the opponent". phma To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.