From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Jan 08 11:59:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52214 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evgh1-00013T-0y for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:59:07 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Evgfe-00012u-GR; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:57:43 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvgfD-00012f-GC for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:57:15 -0800 Received: from web81312.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.128]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvgfC-00012X-Hl for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:57:15 -0800 Received: (qmail 84610 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2006 19:57:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20060108195713.84608.qmail@web81312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.158.161] by web81312.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 11:57:13 PST Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:57:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200601081311.40773.phma@phma.hn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-archive-position: 11016 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: stage 1 and 2 non-fu'ivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=NiWvXY50cXmDZ25Smr1Zl2ooB9_GXIhjHpc8J86m7LpTAcdg_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25415 --- Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Sunday 08 January 2006 10:31, Jorge Llamb�as > wrote: > > I would do them as {djon}, {djan}, {djein} > and {djen}, but "John" has > > been traditionally lojbanized as {djan}. > (There's also {djin} and {djun} > > for "Gene" and "June".) > > Then there are "Jeanne", "Jean", "Jean", and > "Zhang", at least two of which > are {jan} in Lojban, and as we now have two > names, one English, one French, > with the same spelling, one of which has the > same pronunciation as "Gene", we > have to use last names or other disambiguators > no matter which language we're > talking. And "Joan." We can't avoid homonyms in Lojban for English (and French and Chinese and ...) names, though the ancient phonology ( with /o/ as "aw" and /ou/ as "oh" loosens things up a bit, as do dialectic variations ({djon} in that older form for "John" as in New England and Eastern Canada and so contrasting with {djoun} "Joan"). Of course, in almost every dialect, some of these just are pronounced the same and so get carried over the same. We might want to conventionalize some of the more common, however. (and for "Zhang" there is always the suggestion to do Chinese /ng/ as /m/ as functioning roughly the same functionally). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.