From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Jan 27 21:14:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9907 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 05:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 05:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 05:14:54 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F2iMS-0006RZ-2v for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:10:56 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F2iLf-0006PG-Kk; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:10:09 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F2iLF-0006P4-JB for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:09:41 -0800 Received: from mx6.mail.ru ([194.67.23.26]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F2iLD-0006Ow-GP for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:09:41 -0800 Received: from [212.17.3.19] (port=42147 helo=[10.0.0.38]) by mx6.mail.ru with esmtp id 1F2iLB-000CvN-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:09:37 +0300 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:09:40 +0600 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.30) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1675355584.20060128110940@mail.ru> In-Reply-To: <12d58c160601270953j274705d5q5f56e6e80265f4d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d58c160601270953j274705d5q5f56e6e80265f4d7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 11079 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Yanis Batura From: Yanis Batura Reply-To: ybatura@mail.ru Subject: [lojban] "The temperature plunged..." - .EBAZIBO version X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=HKD3uXq_k6L5nV2ziRnrEmm6SI_XSBN0s09UamaEgf1PTBXUsg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25482 "On 23 January temperatures in Moscow plunged from zero to -28C." Semantics: 1. EVENT: On 23 January, temperature measured in Moscow was 0 C. 2. EVENT: SHORTLY THEREAFTER, on 23 January, temperature measured in Moscow was -28 C. The result of direct translation of this to Lojban will be verbose. The natural language compresses these two events to one, making the result of the measurement as actor: Temperature (<-- result of measuring) plunged FROM ... TO ... This trick is hardly carried over to Lojban, without metaphors like {klama}. Even {binxo} can't help, because the measurement result doesn't actually change, there are two different results of measuring events, in fact*. Maybe: {de'i lipapi'ereci vi la moskov. merli lo nilgla lino .ebazibo lini'urebi la selsis.} jbofi'e refuses to parse that, although {mi pinxe lo birje .ebazibo lo ckafi} is parsed OK. mi'e .ianis. --------------------------- *Why hasn't {binxo} a sumti for the original state from which the transformation began, by the way? To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.