From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Jan 09 12:14:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19364 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 20:14:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 20:14:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 20:14:29 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew3MD-0008WP-3c for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:11:09 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew3LV-0008Vt-D0; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:10:27 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew3L5-0008Ud-1C for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:09:59 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ew3L1-0008UW-Aj for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:09:58 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so1624318wra for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.92.7 with SMTP id p7mr8545870wrb; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.11 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:09:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560601091209oe88d19ga9507242b9fccb18@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:09:52 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20060109192911.17256.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060109182638.GD32187@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060109192911.17256.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11025 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: cmevla a class of brivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=KD0NNnzMRGfGkpnEBeVAi3Au4ZQkEdwr8JKTzJ6khWHKU1tXvw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25424 On 1/9/06, John E Clifford wrote: > Of course, the uncertainty about > what {me} means (there are at least three so far > today) doesn't help, but anything like it would > be subject to similar problems of excessive > length. According to the current baseline (CLL) {me } means: x1 is/are among the referents of "". The old (ma'oste) definition was: x1 is specific to in aspect x2 What's the third possibility? > But obviously some device is needed to > use sumti as predicates, else ambiguity results. In addition to {me } there are {me moi} and all the other {me MOI}s that convert a sumti into a predicate. The place structure I use for {me moi} is "x1 is/are 's x2 by rule/relationship x3", which, while not exactly the same as the old {me }, does cover a similar ground. I haven't found any uses for the rest of the MOIs yet. > Whether it needs to be as complex as it often now > is is less clear. In particular, can cmevla -- > not whole sumti -- be used directly without problems? Can they be so used with the current gramma? No. Could the grammar be modified to allow it? Yes, trivially. Would it cause problems? It depends what you mean by "problems". It would require using a {cu} that is currently allowed but not required. You'd have to say {la djan cu klama} instead of just {la djan klama}. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.