From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Jan 29 06:46:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73769 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 14:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 14:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 14:46:38 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F3Dp2-0006hM-UQ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:46:34 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F3Do9-0006fy-3c; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:45:39 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:45:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F3DnK-0006X2-Sm for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:44:47 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F3DnE-0006Wf-FJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:44:44 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i13so947445wra for ; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.160.11 with SMTP id i11mr1881081wre; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.124.13 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:44:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c4e58c10601290644k79260258j9e13721378554f7e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:44:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12081_26263734.1138545879318" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-archive-position: 11091 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eks2005@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Evgeny Sklyanin From: Evgeny Sklyanin Reply-To: eks2005@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] mutce/tsali/carmi etc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=nWFdDCJUrtYzNDvh4ryEbr18l-ArEWd9_dlpPCcnZrlpRXCX-A X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25493 ------=_Part_12081_26263734.1138545879318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline coi rodo My pondering on the question whether is it possible to translate "a grave error" as {le tsali toldra} (see the recent thread "Multiple bridi within a= n abstraction") has lead me to a wider question: what is the difference between the "synonymic" scales tsali/ruble, carmi/kandi, mutce/milxe (each of them may correspond to English "strong/week")? My attempt at the answer: The scale {tsali/ruble} refers mainly to an innate ability of an agent to perform some task: "strong athlete, teacher, student" The scale {carmi/kandi} refers to an intensity of an easily quantifiable quality of an event or an action: "bright light, strong rain, strong push" The scale {mutce/milxe} can be used to add finer gradations into any of the above scales: mutce tsali zajba =3D very strong athlete, milxe carmi carvi = =3D mild rain Besides, {vlipa} is about the social power, power to command: {vlipa catni} Any objections, corrections? What is the current usage? I vaguely remember that someone objected (I don't recall on what grounds) t= o using {mutce} as an equivalent of "very". mi'e .evgenis. ------=_Part_12081_26263734.1138545879318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline coi rodo

My pondering on the question whether is it possible to tran= slate "a grave error" as {le tsali toldra} (see the recent thread= "Multiple bridi w= ithin an abstraction") has lead me to a wider question: what is the di= fference between the "synonymic" scales tsali/ruble, carmi/kandi,= mutce/milxe (each of them may correspond to English "strong/week"= ;)?

My attempt at the answer:

The scale {tsali/ruble} refers mai= nly to an innate ability of an agent to perform some task: "strong ath= lete, teacher, student"

The scale {carmi/kandi} refers to an in= tensity of an easily quantifiable quality of an event or an action: "b= right light, strong rain, strong push"

The scale {mutce/milxe} can be used to add finer gradations into an= y of the above scales: mutce tsali zajba =3D very strong athlete, milxe car= mi carvi =3D mild rain
 
Besides, {vlipa} is about the social po= wer, power to command: {vlipa catni}

Any objections, corrections? What is the current usage?

I va= guely remember that someone objected (I don't recall on what grounds) to us= ing {mutce} as an equivalent of "very".

mi'e .evgenis.
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