From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Jan 08 07:36:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20065 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 15:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 15:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 15:36:17 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvcXa-0006pv-PT for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:33:06 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvcW7-0006pW-Qp; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:38 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvcVe-0006pN-5V for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:06 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EvcVb-0006pF-8p for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:05 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so1399699wra for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.72.15 with SMTP id u15mr7247071wra; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.68.7 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 07:31:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560601080731t6b8d0742h26f87aa35292f1b6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:31:01 -0300 In-Reply-To: <43C06EED.5010501@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060105063129.GY3931@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d17560601050431i1eb4186bx69847bbda3144d4e@mail.gmail.com> <43BDAC35.6070505@lojban.org> <925d17560601051750x787d5026p6d3b094271b257a3@mail.gmail.com> <43BDD896.4080305@lojban.org> <925d17560601060450xd31451al5cdb7ea581c1d108@mail.gmail.com> <43BEE1C5.60506@lojban.org> <925d17560601061811i6d1462e8g793c84ec0e7eb764@mail.gmail.com> <43C06EED.5010501@lojban.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11014 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: stage 1 and 2 non-fu'ivla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=gw6kdZiY8vfDF4a8TJo_T58jzlmj0Po9wMzVhuCfaRjSpW-PWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25413 On 1/7/06, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > In more common names, the English names "John", "Jan", "Jane", and "Jen" > are so packed that Lojbanization loses distinctness. I would do them as {djon}, {djan}, {djein} and {djen}, but "John" has been traditionally lojbanized as {djan}. (There's also {djin} and {djun} for "Gene" and "June".) > --------- > But in the original reasoning, my design posed the stages of borrowing > as this: for a first nonce of a strange name or word that didn't > Lojbanize trivially, a fluent speaker would tend to simply quote the > non-Lojban word, using me to make it a selbri. ... > This concept was based on a certain version of "me" which may or may not > still work (since I don't clearly know where "me" stands these days in > usage). The current baseline corresponds to the CLL definition, which makes the {me} selbri apply to the referents of the sumti, so it would not work with a quote directly. {me zoi zoi spaghetti zoi} is "x1 is the word 'spaghetti' " and not "x1 is a quantity of spaghetti". {me la'e zoi} might work though. The ma'oste definition of {me} would give "x1 is specific to the word 'spaghetti' in aspect x2", which is not all that clear what it means. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.