From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Feb 03 06:14:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46869 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2006 14:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2006 14:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2006 14:14:29 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F51bR-00059O-O4 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:07:57 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F51Zw-0004al-UB; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:06:26 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F51ZN-0004Ye-W7 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:05:50 -0800 Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.123]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F51ZJ-0004XA-4O for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:05:49 -0800 Received: (qmail 42781 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 2006 14:05:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20060203140543.42779.qmail@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.158.161] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:05:43 PST Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 06:05:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-archive-position: 11117 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: Saphir-Whorf partially validated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=NH4hvSopR6Hg1RObIBIbPypCE1qBa6RZALYVIcotJfjbEelLRA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25521 --- Matt Arnold wrote: > The earlier study has been brought up, if I > recall correctly; but I'm > surprised I haven't seen this latest study > discussed here yet. A recent > paper titled "Whorf Hypothesis is Supported in > the Right Visual Field but > not in the Left" confirmed that words can alter > how we perceive the world, > up to a point. Excerpt: > > An earlier study by Paul Kay and colleagues had > shown that speakers of > English and Tarahumara perceive colors > differently: English speakers found > blues and greens to be more distinct from each > other than speakers of > Tarahumara did, as if the English "green" / > "blue" linguistic distinction > sharpened the perceptual difference between the > colors themselves. The > present study essentially repeated the English > part of that earlier test, > but also made sure that colors were presented > to either the right or the > left half of the visual field — something the > earlier study hadn't done — so > as to test whether language influences the > right half of our visual world > more than the left half, as predicted by brain > organization. > > http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060131.regier.shtml > > -epkat This appears to have the usual problems with S-W tests. First, vocabulary items have next to nothing to do with the S-W thesis, which is about grammatical categories and structures and their effect on patterns of thought: ways of looking at the world. Secondly, vocabulary studies are almost bound to be indecisive: a culture values a distinction and has words for both sides of the distinction, but these facts in no way demonstrate a causal link in either direction. It would be a least as likely (if not more so) that the desirability of being careful about various types of snow led to the language having words for the various types as (than) the other way round. To be sure, the brain split results are interesting but not obviously related to S-W any more than the usual results, though it does suggest that color recognition is centered somewhere near language in the brain. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.