From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 20 16:32:05 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLUmp-0002qd-PS for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:31:47 -0800 Received: from web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.125]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLUmn-0002qW-QW for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:31:47 -0800 Received: (qmail 37322 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 00:31:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Xh4D44WgLIamzj2LoyGgOcn8agMd1PfIld9Lf48xvaU8FktHljJl2VW5HFwkmC15lO0v/B0nFhr9x0tffybcDWwRslGvXxDUPjkiXsAzYyzj+CVdOWf7J929j0c9+QO+cBncv6P57v2urby5TEzWsxpeQg+S/dZzdFRCBbPeVb0= ; Message-ID: <20060321003144.37320.qmail@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:31:44 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:31:44 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11189 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I don't know whether it is normal English, but that is how it goes for me, too. --- Alex Joseph Martini wrote: > to de'i li 20 pi'e 3 pi'e 2006 la'e zoi gy. > John E Clifford gy. ciska > toi > > > I worry about this: it seems to say "in the > actual frame of reference > > of someone who might be looking at the > mountain" (but, ex hypothesi, > > is not), which would miss the point. I think > that moving the {da'i} > > out to scope the whole sentence works nicely: > "the ball would be on > > the right of the tree for someone looking at > the mountain (with all > > xorxes quite correct assumptions)." The other > possibility would be to > > bury the {lo catlu be lo cmana} behind {tu'a} > and leave the details to > > be worked out later. Byt the way, is there a > regular distinction > > between "on Billy's right" and "to the right > of Billy"? > > > > [ li'o ] > > In normal English usage, "on Billy's right" > means 'on the same side of > Billy's body as Billy's right hand is'. "To the > right of Billy" means > either Billy's or someone else's right side is > being used for reference. > Here, the thing being referenced could be on > the side with Billy's left > hand, but with the speaker's right hand, if the > speaker and Billy are > facing one another. This second case is > inherently ambiguous without the > visual context that we would normally have when > speaking. > > mu'omi'e .aleks. > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to > http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to > secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.