From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 28 05:34:31 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOEKg-00038Q-1A for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:34:02 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOEKb-00038E-LW for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:34:01 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i4so210442wra for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:33:56 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=U52QkxMYvYy0CG6jIcvt/QcBU+o4mhvTR2pd21ziEHUDccyODcp49PJ+IkvY/Zeqoj2HMNQFRs5RRTU2+XrCwbvbURB8tWZnp2xeco5T8CF0x/vehB7wU2zncEnbEMtK4Mxx3+e63gTZ6Sb+chHEN35qyx3ggxi731v87VyY6PI= Received: by 10.54.122.10 with SMTP id u10mr4200979wrc; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.69.7 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:27:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603280527s526a54farf7764b58bee43a7f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:27:19 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything In-Reply-To: <20060327220012.55642.qmail@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560603271315gd1d2807ga19b76c54174030a@mail.gmail.com> <20060327220012.55642.qmail@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11262 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 3/27/06, John E Clifford wrote: > As > for evidence, it is even more common to ask for > it for beliefs (I am not sure why, since I don't > generally get the belief/opinion distinction > apparently being mae here) and yet {krici} > explicitly denies the possibility of asking for > grounds. As I recall, it was clarified at some point that the "[without evidence]" of {krici} was really meant to be "[not necessarily with evidence]". > > More > > commonly, I can think of a person for example > > without > > thinking anything in particular about them. > > What would that be like (Okay, since you do it, > is that like)? The closest I come that I can > remember is a mental picture of the person out of > context. This is rare for me, since I am not > very visual, so generally I think of a person in > a situation. What about thinking of a number, or of the colour red, or of the word "red". Can you manage to think of one of those without having to think some proposition about them? > > > > No, I think pensi is fine as it is, but > > that it is not for opinions. > > I agree, since it does not carry affirmation. I wouldn't say opinion carries affirmation either, although perhaps it would be necessary to clarify what each of us means by affirmation. In my view, affirmation is only possible with an audience, whereas opinion does not need an audience. I can have an opinion and never express it, but I cannot make an affirmation without expressing something. > The question is whether it is propositional. I > gather you would say not or at least not > necessarily. Right, the object of {pensi} may but need not have propositional content. > > mi pensi lo nu mi te vecnu lo karce > > I am thinking of (I am considering) buying a > > car. > > Good. Wondering then can be thinking about a(n > indirect) question. Yes. That would be more specifically {kucli}, but {pensi} should be able to cover it too. > Opining is thinking about > something and affirming it, claiming it to be > true extramentally. I don't think so. I think having an opinion is not extramental, and I think {jinvi} indicates having an opinion, not expressing it. Affirming something would be {xusra}. > And so on. So we could use {pensi} as a base. {pensi} lacks the belief component of {jinvi}, so you would need some other way to get that in, either {jinvi} or {krici} or something else. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.