From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 28 08:41:45 2006
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60)	(envelope-from <nobody@digitalkingdom.org>)	id 1FOHG4-0006Y3-4V	for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:28 -0800
Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.117])	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60)	(envelope-from <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net>)	id 1FOHG2-0006Xu-85	for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:27 -0800
Received: (qmail 78204 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2006 16:41:25 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;  s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net;  h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;  b=JEarEiCVlG2b/8CELhvjhYbg3SXZLR11kTTYs8lR9jpghOIe4BOYcPJnptsooyBP1LRgfSLhc03YOLaeBRc/1lvPDohtMpP0HR2LI1EhSrEq7uz4s0RSNVlY7q6Q/KhQwnYO0UGa1wlsHYy0v3vt35rpWUD8UVnSExlbORV4hDU=  ;
Message-ID: <20060328164125.78202.qmail@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:24 PST
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:24 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
In-Reply-To: <925d17560603280754h6029b7f1k4e86efaaa9c29058@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/)
X-archive-position: 11268
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-list

--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/28/06, John E Clifford
> <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > So the difference between {krici} and {jinvi}
> is
> > the evidence place?
> 
> As far as I can tell, that's the only
> difference, yes.
> 
> >  Having the opinion is not
> > extramental but to be an opinion it must
> involve
> > reference to an extramental situation
> (except, of
> > course, opinions about mental situations).
> 
> If you except the cases when it need not, then
> yes, it must. :)

Well, those aren't really exception to the
general idea, they are just thrown in because
that idea got expressed as "extramental."
 
> > > {pensi} lacks the belief component of
> {jinvi},
> > > so you would need some other way to get
> that in, either
> > > {jinvi} or {krici} or something else.
> >
> > The belief component is what I called
> > affirmation, I think.  Yes, that has to be
> added,
> > like the truth component to get {djuno} --
> > actually that requires both.
> 
> I wonder how NSM paraphrases "X believes Y"
> (perhaps
> "X thinks that Y is true"?) and once it gets
> that, why it can't
> also get a suitable paraphrase for KNOW
> (something like
> "Y is true and X thinks that Y is true" and
> probably a couple
> more things?).

Historically, it has been those couple more
things, usually summed up as "X is justified in
this belief," that have been the hard part (no
one has a generally accepted version that can be
made to work in practice).


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.