From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Mar 22 06:12:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1418 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 14:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2006 14:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 14:12:47 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM44T-0003FF-KA for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:12:21 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM42Z-0003BU-6s; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:10:23 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM426-00039m-Lz for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:09:54 -0800 Received: from web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.119]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM425-00039e-Go for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:09:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 99617 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 14:09:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20060322140952.99615.qmail@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:09:52 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:09:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560603220523i3c569819w83d892639f5bbdb4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11208 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=bda8MH7TOdlF-jCA2VneJzhEIBXDD1-10zRxQTu95_Mb_lp3Hw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25618 --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 3/21/06, John E Clifford > wrote: > > Thanks for the list. Mine came out a bit > > different, largely because of different > readings > > (apparently) of either the NSM list or of the > > Lojban. > > Any interesting difference worth mentioning? Not really. > > The NSM list, since the words are > > primes, does not get a lot of explanation, > > although the issue of Theoretical Linguistics > on > > NSM (v. 29, #3) does clarify a few by giving > > unambiguous (well, much less ambiguous) > frames > > taken as decisive. > > I later found a couple of articles with some > examples, so some > of them were a bit more clear. For example > "SOMETHING" > does not have to be an object, it can also be > an action, as in > "I do something", but presumably it cannot be a > person, so > there is no direct equivalent in Lojban {lo > dacti} covers too little > and {da} covers too much. But it is definitely an existential quantifier, not a noun phrase -- and not quantitative ({su'o} -- a distinction hard to make in Lojban or English). > > The Lojban-Lojban section of > > jbovlaste is a step in the right direction, > > lacking mainly a definitive list of primes > and of > > normative contexts for definitions. And, of > > course, covering more words. > > Yes. I don't really believe in definitive lists > of primes, but I do > believe that defining things in terms of > simpler concepts is > worthwhile. Well, there is the logical argument for there being a single distinctive list of primes. But on a prectical level, it is sufficient to have a set of basics at any given point of analysis, with the possibility that at another point, some of those primes are open to analysis. so long as the two levels never meet there is no problem; if they do, we get the usual situation of circular definitions. I think that ultimately a universal set of primes is called for, whether the NSM set or another (and it is unclear that the NSM set is adequate, despite the best efforts of its supporters). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.